Individual Details

John has two tombstones - they each have different dates of birth and death. Because one of them has his death after 1830, and he was living for the 1830 census. I have chosen it to be more correct. The other states he was born 1735 which seems a bit too early and died 1820, which is definitely wrong. There is so much confusion about the Bakers, it is almost impossible to separate fact from fiction. One person told me they were different John Bakers which seems likely but they both get attached to various online webpages.

In THE KENTUCKY EXPLORER, Nov, 1993, p.32 "Who Were The Longhunters of Kentucky's Pioneer Days?" by Mrs. W. T. Lafferty (ca 1938), Mrs. Lafferty quotes from Collins' HISTORY OF KENTUCKY, p.417:
"....twenty men from North Carolina, Rockbridge County and the Valley of New River left Ready Creek June, 1767 [this likely should have been 1769 - I don't know if the typo occurred in the article or Collins' book] ......party included John Rains and Kasper Mansco (from Tennessee), Abraham Bledsoe, JOHN BAKER, Joseph Drake, Obadiah Terrell, Uriah Stone, Henry Smith, Edward Cowan, Thomas Gordon, Humphrey Hogan, Cassius Brooks, Robert Crockett, and others. Some of these men went home in 1700, ten of them built a ....canoe.....went down the Cumberland and the Mississippi to ...Natchez and then to their homes."
and from Ramsey's ANNALS OF TENNESSEE, p. 97:
"James Rains, Kasper Mansco, Abraham Bledsoe, JOHN BAKER, Joseph Drake, Obadiah Terrell, Uriah Stone, Henry Smith, Ned Cowan, Robert Crockett and Colonel James Knox were in Kentucky and continued to hunt eight or nine months, then returned (to their settlement) in 1770."

From THE LONG HUNT by Ted Franklin Belue, 1996, p.93. "In June 1769 twenty Long Hunters from the New River region of Virginia and western North Carolina gathered in North Carolina to make plans to hunt west of the Appalachians. ....Included were Casper Mansker, Abraham & Isaac Bledsoe, Joseph Drake, Obadiah Terrall, JOHN BAKER, Henry Smith, New Cowan, John Rains, and others.

From "THE LIFE OF DANIEL BOONE" by Lyman C. Draper, LL.D., edited by Ted Franklin Belue, 1998, p.189: Mr. Draper describes an expedition in either 1766-67, the year is not clear from his writing: "In the following year, Benjamin Cutbirth, John Stuart, JOHN BAKER and James Ward, all excellent woodsmen and all young married men, concluded to forego the happiness of home for a season and make an effort to penetrate the wilderness in a westerly direction to the Mississippi.......they finally beheld the majestic Mississippi. So far as can be ascertained, this was the first band of white men of whom we have any certain account that ever accomplished that great undertaking."
In a footnote (8) at the end of Chapter 5, p.199: "BAKER was one of Col. James Knox's party of celebrated Long Hunters in 1770-71 and afterwards settled among the hills in the north-eastern part of Rockcastle Co KY where he died about 1820, fully eighty years of age. He was a handy, honest, good looking man, about middle size; and his sons and grandsons after him were unsurpassed hunters and woodsmen."
p.254-257 "In the month of June 1769 a party of twenty or more adventurers was formed in the New River region... Of this company ....JOHN BAKER ... ......On the 6th day of April, 1770, half or more of the party returned to the settlements, while Stone, Mansker, BAKER, Gordon, Hogan, Brooks, and four others built two, boats, two trapping canoes ....descended the Cumberland. .......Descending the Mississippi to the Spanish Natchez, they disposed of their cargo, and most of them returned hom. Mansker, however, was detained there awhile by sickness, and then went with BAKER to Ozark.....thence back to New River....."
p.271 is a repeat of much of the information from the footnate on p.199 and describes how John Baker and his wife were reputed to have discovered the Big Cave in Rockcastle County.

http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~vahsswv/historicalsketches/long%20hunters.html
Historical Society of Southwest Virginia
THE LONG HUNTERS, by Emory L. Hamilton
[Many of the references listed at the end of the article are from the Draper papers]
[Uriah] Stone was a juror in the Fincastle Court of July 7, 1773, and on this same date, he, along with Obediah Terrell, Gasper Mansker and Castleton Brooks were witnesses in the case of John Baker versus Humphrey Hogan, all of whom were long hunters. Then again in the Fincastle Court of November 3, 1773, there was a motion of Uriah Stone to stay the proceedings of a judgement obtained against him by Obediah Terrell. The last mention of Stone in the Fincastle records was on December 6, 1774, when Gasper Mansker was plaintiff against Uriah Stone and Jacob Harmon.
....Elisha Wallen went out again in 1763 with much the same group as were in his party of 1761. Glowing reports of the Cumberland and Ohio River basins brought back by Uriah Stone, Joshua Houghton, or Horton, and others of the long hunters fanned the urge for exploration to the boiling point. Plans were laid for a great hunt in Tennessee and Kentucky. The rendevous was to be on New River, eight miles from Fort Chiswell, in June 1769. This party consisted of at least twenty of more men, and Williams, in his "Dawn of Tennessee History," names ten, to wit: John Rains, Gasper Mansker, Abraham Bledsoe, Joseph Baker, Joseph Drake, Obediah Terrell, Uriah Stone, Henry Smith, Ned Cowan and Robert Crockett.
To these ten, the following names also should be added: Isaac Bledsoe, William Carr, James Dysart, Jacob Harmon, William Crabtree, James Aldridge, John Baker, Thomas Gordon, Humphrey Hogan and Castleton Brooks. "Passing through Cumberland Gap and far into Kentucky, a station camp was built, and the company there dispersed into small hunting parties, as was the custom. Traveling southeast, one of these parties reached Roaring River and Caney Fork of the Cumberland.
...Obadiah Terrell, for whom Obey's River in Tennessee, was named, was a chunky, small-sized man with a club foot.
He spent several years on the Cumberland as a farmer and hunter, and before permanent settlement was made in Tennessee, hunted and camped along the river in what later became Cumberland and Pulaski counties.
...While on the Clinch frontier, Obediah Terrell lived on Obey's Creek in Scott County, Virginia, which was named for him. The last official court record pertaining to him in Washington County, Virginia, was April 22, 1778, when he was appointed Overseer of the road from "two big springs" on Copper Creek to the head of Moccasin Creek, and on August 18, 1778 when he was appointed Administrator of the estate of Thomas Kindrick. It was perhaps soon after this date that he moved to Tennessee, for less than sixteen months thereafter Daniel Smith was spending the night with him on Obey's River in middle Tennessee.
...In 1769, a party of approximately forty hunters with James Knox as their leader spent more than a year in the Cumberland country. Many conflicting accounts of this party of 1769 have been written. Much of the confusion because the party split into several smaller parties, each going in a different direction. Everybody is pretty well agreed that they went in a body over the Hunter's Trail to Flat Lick (near Stinking Creek, about eight miles north and a little west of Cumberland Ford.)
Just about all the long hunters heretofore mentioned in this manuscript were on this hunt, and those not mentioned previously being the Bledsoe brothers, Anthony, Abraham and Isaac, John Baker, Thomas Gordon, Jacob Harmon, Castleton Brooks, John Montgomery, James Dysart, Humphrey Hogan, David and William Lynch, Christopher Stoph, William Allen, Joseph Bowen, and Ned Cowan.

Source of the nickname "Renta" - this narrative also place John Baker and Elisha Harrison together.
Copied from Crystal Jensen's Baker Family Newsletter Volume 10, Pages 14 through 18.
FROM THE REVEREND JOHN J. DICKEY'S DIARY
ALLEN E. ROBERTSON - MANCHESTER, KENTUCKY - APRIL 15, 1898
[narrative about Robertson's family] ...He [his father David Robertson] hunted then with
John Baker, Sr. father of Julius "Bob", and "Durkham"John, George who married Esther
Robertson, my aunt and was a (Methodist crossed out, Baptist overwritten) preacher, and
James called "Clay Bank" a great fighter. "Clay Bank" was the father of Billy Baker. John
Baker, Sr. was called "Renta" had a brother Bowling Baker and a brother George Baker...
...The Bakers came from North Carolina to Madison County, and lived in forts there. Another of these hunters from the Blue Grass was William Morris, called "Cuddy" who settled in the forks of Goose Creek and Red Bird. These, "Renta" Baker, his three sons, George, John, and "Julius Bob", (William) Morris, Jack Harris, Elisha Harrison with my father David Robertson made the eight hunters who visited these regions.

and this:
Three Forks of the Kentucky River Historical Association
John Jay Dickey Diary
Jason W. Bolling
Manchester, KY, April 8, 1898 (Pg 2221)
I am a great great grandson of "Teneretta" BAKER. My great grandfather was "Julius or Juder" Bob BAKER. He married the widow of John AMIS. His son, John married Lucinda AMIS, step-brother and step-sister. He was my grandfather. His daughter Susan, was my mother. "Teneretta" BAKER came to Buffalo Creek from Boyle County in the early settlement of this country. He was the uncle of Robert P. LETCHER, governor of Kentucky. Francis CLARK was a cousin of Robert P. LETCHER. Dr. Abner BAKER was a cousin of "Julius" Bob BAKER, also a cousin of Francis CLARK, Francis CLARK owned 40,000 acres of land, in Jackson and Clay Counties called the Rutherford Survey, also another 6000 called the Rutherford Survey on Rockcastle River including where Mrs. Nantz McWhorter from Big Raccoon to Mrs. NANTZ. "Juder" Bob was in the War of 1812. William NEAL was with him in the war and NEAL was carried 15 miles to be buried by "Juder" Bob BAKER. "Smoker" CLARK says Francis CLARK got 14 negros of the Letcher estate. Clark was kin to the HARLANS and ROBERTSONS.


The marriage record for John Baker to Elizabeth Terrel seen as 5 Sep 1754 is likely in error. There is a Chowan Co NC marriage bond record for John Baker to Elizabeth WILSON on 5 Sep 1764. She is given as the daughter of James Wilson; Jas. Craven Bondsman & J. Eelbeck, Witness. This record could very well be that of John Baker of Chowan Co NC, brother of Blake Baker. There's no indications John Renta Baker was ever in this part of North Carolina.
There is a strong tradition John Renta's wife was a Terrell; perhaps a niece to the long hunter Obadiah Terrill. This tradition is supported in several different lines of the family.

Some also say he married Aza [Agatha] Williams. However, the husband of Aga Williams was from Winchester, Frederick co VA and left his will, Clark Co, KY WB 1, p.302. There are various other marriages of John Bakers in North Carolina that have been ascribed to him - it's obvious he wasn't married to all these ladies in all these places. There are many John Bakers.

Another possible marriage for John is found here; this one having more possibilities than any of the others because of the date, place, and associates.
http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=gwenbjorkman&id=I2019570&printer_friendly
John Baker & Henry Morris were Bondsmen on George Baker's marr. bond
29 Aug 1778 in Wilkes Co, NC. John md.10 Sept., 1779 to a Miss.
ROWLAND. (This is taken from Mrs. Abshire's list in Wilkes Co.)
Bondsmen were George Morris & Charles Rowland.
The above goes on to claim Miss Rowland was Susannah, but I fail to see any proof of that. That may very well derive from the consent of John Baker for the marriage of his daughter Ifee to Elisha Harrison, when James & Susannah Baker were witnesses to John's signature. The lady's given name is not on the bond.
I found on the Baker Family GenForum message board, a post dated 20 Feb 2006 from a Jim Kimble. He stated that he had a copy of the bond for the marriage of John Baker and Susannah Rowland and that the signature was the same as the signature on the consent for John's daughter Iffa to marry Elisha Harrison. He goes on to state that the name "Sooky" was often a nickname for Susannah, which is true, and that might have been the origin of the "Sookotash" name that is seen for Iffa. Then he goes on to state that Susannah Baker that witnessed the consent above, was Iffa's mother - that cannot be said for certain, as she didn't join in the consent; she testified to John Baker's declaration and signature.

I have the copy of the Bond cited above from the NCArchives and it doesn't even have the bride's surname.
Know all men by these Presents that we John Baker George Morris and Charles Rowland all of the county of Wilkes and State of North Carolina are held and firmly Bound unto Richard Caswell Esqr, Governor of said state in the full and Just Sum of five hundred Pounds Proc. money to be Paid to the Said Richard Caswell Esqr. & his Successors to which Payment well and truly to be made we bind Ourselves our Heirs Executors and Administrators Jointly and Severally firmly by these Presents Sealed with our Seals and Dated this 10th Day of September A.D. 1779.
The Condition of the above obligation is such that whereas the above Bound John Baker hath this Day made Application for a Marriage License to be Granted Between him the said John Baker and _________________________________ both of said County.
Now if there is no Lawfull Cause to Obstruct said marriage and the Said marriage be in every Respect Lawful then the above Obligation to be Void otherwise to Remaid in full force and Virtuue.
Signed and Sealed: John Baker, George Morris, Charles Rowland
Signd Seal & Deliverd
In Presents of Wm. Lenoir CC, Spruce Mccay

1778 microfilmed tax list for Wilkes, NC, in Capt. Baker’s district lists this: Capt. An.Baker spelled exactly that way. Morris and James Baker are always near one another and seem to have a close relationship with Capt. William Nall. One could theorize that Morris and James are not brothers of Rev Andrew and Renta, George and Bowling. Neither Morris or James had sons named Andrew. Also on that 1778 tax list in that same Capt. Baker district is this name: Robert Baker.

1782 Wilkes Co, NC Tax List - Posted in the Andrew Baker Researchers mail list:
The 1782 tax list for Wilkes NC is very interesting. It's in proximity order. It's also close in time to the capture of Col Benjamin Cleveland by the Tories. The capture occurred in the neighborhood where many of our Bakers were living. The story is well documented in the Draper papers. The story mentions many of the people on the 1782 tax list and states their relationships.
In addition, the 1782 Wilkes tax list enumerates Benjamin Bowling as being present in the same neighborhood as Andrew Baker, John "Renta" Baker, James Baker, Capt. Thomas Callaway Sr, and Benjamin Cutbirth. This is the only Wilkes NC record I know of that shows Benjamin Bowling in close proximity to our Group 3 Bakers.
Capt. Cleveland's district begins on page 26. You'll see (Rev) Andrew, James and John (Renta) Baker in the district (page 28). The Callaways are there too but the surname is oddly spelled as Calloe. Morris Baker is in a nearby but different tax district, on page 19.
In the story of Col Cleveland's capture, two men are described as brothers in law to sons of Capt Thomas Callaway who married Mary Baker about 1735. This means the descendants of those men carry some Group 3 Baker DNA which they inherited from Mary Baker, the aunt of Rev Andrew and thus the sister of Old Andrew.

Was John also in Burke Co?
BURKE COUNTY, NORTH CAROLINA
Land Entries 1778-1795
"No. 119, Jno Baker, 160 acres. John Baker Enters 160 acres of land in the County of Burke located as follows on a Creek of Caney River known by the name of Bollings Creek Beginning at a white oak near the Bank of said Creek running up the said Creek on both sides, Including the place where Boling cut some logs for complement. Entered Sept 8th 1789"
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-8982-4SL?i=409&cat=7583



[This could also be John's son named John....]
Extract of Goose Creek Salt Works, Nov & Dec 1807, Order Book for Accounts, Clay Co KY,
Ky Historical Society, Mss. Reel 43, Item #649
Nov 1807 John Baker: traded 21 raccoon skins and 1 fox skin for Salt
12 Dec 1807: John Baker got 1 pair of Leggings per order of Christopher Bolin by certificate for $16.50. John paid Wilson Moore 3lbs.

1810 Census. Clay Co KY on same page
Abner Baker: 3m under 10, 1m 10-16, 1m 26-45; 2f under 10, 1f 26-45
John Baker Jun: 3m under 10, 1m 16-26, 1f under 10, 1f 26-45
John Baker Sen: 1m10-16, 1m over 45 - no females in household
Jesse Boling (over 45 with family)
Justius Boling, 16-26 with male child and wife

10 Jan 1816 - date of Survey for 50 acres on the south fork of the Kentucky River, Kentucky Land Grant to Jno and Robt Baker. This could be father and son, or two of his sons.

1820 Census. Clay Co, KY There were actually 4 of them - 2 were John Baker, one was John C. Baker, one was John D. Baker.
John Baker on the same page with Robert Baker: 1m 10-16, 1m 16-18, 2m 16-26, 1m 26-45. 1f under 10, 1f 10-16, 1f 26-45 (too young to be the elder John)
Robert Baker had a male under 10, 1 age 16-26, 1m 26-45, 1m over 45. 1f under 10, 2f 10-16, 1f 16-26, 1f over 45.

Then next in 1820 John Baker was on the same page with Bolling Sr/Jr. over age 45 and a James age 16-26. This John had in his household, 3m under 10, 1m 10-16, 2m 16-18, 3m 16-26, 1m over 45. 1f under 10, 2 f 10-16, and 1 female 26-45. It would seem to be a blended household.


1830 Census. Clay Co, KY
John Baker: 1m under 5, 1m 30-40, 1m 50-60, 1m 80-90 [John]
3 f under 5, 1f 20-30, 1f 50-60

Said to be buried in the John Baker Cemetery. NC Militia, Revolutionary War.
He may have died in what is now Owsley County, but that county was not formed until 1843. The military stone has the date 1735-1820. Not what is now usually considered the dates of his birth and death. Certainly he appears to have been living in 1830.


There were still John Bakers present in Clay Co in 1840:
1840 Census. Clay Co KY
John C. Baker: 1m 50-60; 1f 20-30, 1f 30-40. This older John is next to Job Baker and family - Job is age 30-40. Adoniram Baker, also age 30-40 is on the same page - and the West families as found in 1850
and another John Baker....
John Baker, 1m under 5, 2m 5-10, 1m 10-15, 1m 40-50. 1f under 5, 1f 5-10, 2f 10-15, 1f 15-20, 1f 30-40. On the same page with Robert Baker, Jr., Andrew Baker, Cornelius Bowman, Henry Gabbard Sr, John Gabbard, Henry Gabbard Jr. and Isack Gabbard

An Isaac Baker of Greene Co TN has traditionally been placed as a son of John Renta Baker. He can be found in my database, but Y-DNA has proved conclusively that he was not kin to John Renta Baker, nor was he kin to the gunsmith Bakers.

At least one Pension app for the Revolution has been attributed to John, but it's a John who lived longer and who was in Cumberland Co, KY, not Clay. Supposedly John's gravesite in Courtland Cemetery, Buffalo Creek, Owsley Co has a military marker - Pvt. U.S. Army. Revolutionary War. It seems he was certainly of an age to serve, but I don't know that his actual service has ever been pinpointed out of the maze of John Bakers.

A summary of possible Rev War service is in Message #1896 of the AndrewBakerResearch Yahoo mailgroup. 2 Nov 2017

I'm sure Renta's descendants have gone over all this stuff again and again, but let's take another look at something that may suggest he had significant revolutionary military service.

Per William Sparks' revolutionary pension application:
"...Capt. John Cleveland, (nicknamed Devil John) son of Col. Benjamin Cleveland, who afterwards fought at King's Mountain, and who then resided near our former residence on the Yadkin, come over to our settlement on New River, and proposed to my class to volunteer to go with him against the Cherokee Indians, saying that this tour would be accounted the same as the same length of service against the British, against whom we were then preparing to go. Four of my neighbors of my class viz. John Baker, Israel Campbell, John Waters, and George Humphreys, with myself, accepted John Cleveland's proposition, and in obedience to his order rendezvoused at Wilkes Court House (Wilkesboro) and entered the service under the said John Cleveland as our Captain on the 15th day of August..."
Link: http://revwarapps.org/r9960.pdf

John Walters (see John Waters above) left a revolutionary pension application in which he generally confirms William Sparks' narrative. You'll have to read the two narratives and make your own comparison:
Link: http://revwarapps.org/s30771.pdf

We have previously discussed some early Wilkes County NC tax lists which enumerate the district in which Andrew and John Baker lived. Here's a link to a 1778 list which shows Andrew Jr and John Baker next to each other, and in close proximity to John Sparks (William Spark's brother):
Link: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CS3J-XQ9S-M?i=58&cat=1689329

A 1779 list:
Link: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CS3J-XQ93-H?i=49&cat=1689329

Another list dated 1778:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CS3J-XQ9S-M?i=58&cat=1689329

Finally, the 1782 tax list, which describes the district as "Capt Cleveland's District" -- this is Capt John "Devil John" Cleveland (Col Benjamin Cleveland's son). Can't hotlink directly to the district, you have to click on the link and then advance forward page by page to image 26 (but once you get there you can download and save the page):
Link: http://digital.ncdcr.gov/cdm/ref/collection/p16062coll33/id/1255/

One thing I'd investigate is whether there are any other John Bakers in proximity who could possibly be the one mentioned in William Sparks' pension application. Another question is whether the John Baker next to Rev Andrew is Renta.
As an aside, I note that at the start of the war Andrew Baker Jr was considered captain of the district, but by 1782 Col. Benjamin Cleveland's son John was captain, even though John Cleveland didn't reside in the district. I wonder if this had anything to do with Andrew Jr appearing on the tory list as having taken protection of the enemy, and also with the interesting question of why Andrew Jr didn't rush to the rescue of Col Cleveland when Cleveland was captured by the Torys.
David Hindman

Birth	24 Jan 1744
Death	10 Nov 1831	Owsley County, Kentucky
Marriage		ELIZABETH ?TERRELL

Spouse	ELIZABETH ?TERRELL ( - )
Child	Andrew BAKER (1765 - 1842)
Child	James "Claybank" BAKER (1768 - )
Child	John "Durkham" Baker (1770 - )
Child	Robert Julius "Juder Bob" BAKER (1774 - 1859)
Child	Nancy Baker (1777 - 1849)
Child	George Washington BAKER (1779 - 1846)
Child	Boling BAKER (1784 - 1840)
Child	IFFA BAKER (1790 - 1866)

Father	ANDREW BAKER (1720 - 1779)
Mother	Susannah [Baker] ( - )
Sibling	James Baker (1746 - 1801)
Sibling	Rev. Andrew Baker (1749 - 1815)
Sibling	Morris Baker (1750 - 1810)
Sibling	Robert Baker (1754 - 1819)
Sibling	George BAKER (1759 - 1841)
Sibling	Martha "Pattie" BAKER (1761 - )
Sibling	Bolling Baker (1763 - 1834)
Sibling	Eleanor "Nellie" Baker (1765 - 1842)

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