Individual Details
Baron Alan "de Wyntown, Winton" Wyntown
(1291 - 1347)
}
== Biography ==There is a great uncertainty regarding the lineage of Alan de Wynton and his parents have never been identified in original source material. The first notice of him is in Bain's Calendar of DocsCal. of Docs. , iii. 337. when he abducts Margaret Seton, Heiress of Seton. Andrew de Wyntoun, the English Historian,Cronykil; II p. 267 also notices him and Balfour Paul[[#S-1]] Balfour Paul; Vol 8, [https://archive.org/stream/scotspeeragefoun08pauluoft#page/570/mode/2up page 570] believes he may have been a distant relative. Winton (Wyntoun) were part of the Seton estates and held to the family of Seton of that Ilk (or Margaret's line), thus he was one of her tenants. Sir Bruce Gordon[[#S-2]] Sir Bruce Gordon Seton; [https://archive.org/stream/houseofsetonstv100seto#page/98/mode/2up page 99] provides greater insight. There had been an "Aleyn de Wynton" who had sworn fealty to Edward I. in 1296, among the barons of the county of Edinburgh (which encompasses East Lothian and the Seton estates); and a "Thomas de Wynton" who did likewise, among the barons of Ayrshire (which is on the other side of the country). A "Robert de "Winton" had a charter of Hirdmanston (an estate in Renfrewshire, generally held by the Sinclair of Roslyn) before 1300 from Robert I, and "Ingelram" and "Hugo de Winton" appear in a charter of 1343.
There is no doubt that the estate of Winton had been in the hands of the Setons for several generations. It is realistic to assume that it had been provided to one of the younger sons of a previous generations and from the estate that son derived his last name as a territorial name, a practice common amongst the Norman/Flemish migrants to Scotland. Sir Bruce Gordon Seton[[#S-2]] Sir Bruce Gordon Seton; [https://archive.org/stream/houseofsetonstv100seto#page/100/mode/2up page 100] speculates that this Alan de Wyntoun may well have been a descendant of a Philip de Seton, who owned Winton and died about 1195.
=== Abduction of Margaret Seton and Marriage ===The first historical notice of him occurs, in1347, when he abducts his overlord, the Heiress of Seton. It must be presumed that her father had died at this point, history suggests this event occurred between 1347 and 1349 and we can expect the two events coincided. She was evidently the Heiress and likely still young. She was clearly mature as the estates do not go into ward. The record, and suggested on her Profile, was that she was thus born about 1330. He is also mentioned as being young, young even when he takes up the Cross and travels to Jerusalem and was likely born about the same year; thus we could have a story of two young lovers seeking to find happiness where otherwise they would not have - well maybe.
This abduction was not popular, obviously, and created serious disruption in the community; creating "Wyntoun's war". According to FordunFordun: Scotichronicon; Vol. II p. 337 a hundred ploughs were laid aside in Lothian while the matter was under discussion. Lord Hailes says "some favoured the ravisher, others thought to bring him to punishment." It could therefore be presumed he had some support amongst the local community.
Wynton also mentions that "that William of Murray, whose sister had married Sir Alexander Seton, aided the young couple and took them into Edinburgh Castle of which he was Governor." This could only be viewed as justification by a relative and unlikely although that may have been where he escaped to seek protection. As Balfour Paul notes if Murray abetted De Wyntoun, the heiress can hardly have been, as some have held, daughter of the marriage between his own sister Margaret and Sir Alexander Seton.
There is a story, mentioned in both sources and sourced to Fordun, that complaint was made to the King, (which must have been David II.) and that Alan was apprehended. Margaret was then subjected to the ordeal of being blindfolded and made to choose between a sword and a ring. She chose the latter and they were then regarded as wed. Alan de Wyntoun never appears on the source record under the name of Seton.
=== Takes the Cross === He is noticed as having sought the cross apparently while still a young man, owing (according to Bower) to intrigues against him on the part of her relations, and died in the Holy Land.
We can only presume this to relate to the Alexandrian Crusade in 1365, although he seems to be already dead at this time, or, as Sir Alexander de Seton had been Master of the House of Torphichen of the Order of the Knights of St. John of Jerusalem up to his death in 1349, he may have joined that Order, or he went as a Pilgrim.
However he is known to have had two children by Margaret and he would have had to have given up all right to have joined the Order of the Knights of St. John of Jerusalem.
To support the Pilgrim option, there is a record of a deposit in London on his way abroad, where Alan de Wyntoun left 400 ducats of gold with one Nicholas Zucull a Venetian merchant. This would not have occurred if he was a member of the Knight of St. John. In 1363 his son "William of Wyntoun" authorised Adam Wymondham a citizen, and Nicholas Nogrebon, a Venetian to recover the money. The document states that Alan had died on his way to Mount Sinai, when about to visit the tomb of St. Katherine there.Rotuli Scotiae; Vol. 1. No. 879 His death must have occurred close to this event.
=== Family ===
With Margaret he had two children:
# [[Seton-212|William de Seton]]; likely born about 1350, who will inherit the lands and titles. It can be presumed that the lands of Winton were returned to the Seton line at this point as they certainly appear in Charters of William's children.# [[Seton-45|Margaret (or sometimes noticed as Christiana) Seton]], likely born about 1355. She is supposed to have been married to George, tenth Earl of Dunbar.[[#S-1]] Balfour Paul; Vol 8, [https://archive.org/stream/scotspeeragefoun08pauluoft#page/570/mode/2up page 570] and also noticed at Vol. 3, [https://archive.org/stream/scotspeeragefoun03pauluoft#page/272/mode/2up page 273].
Supporting the two young lovers theory; his wife outlived him but never remarried although she was still young when he died and, holding the estates of Seton, a prize.
== Sources ==
* Source S-1 }
* Source S-2 }
9/14/2014 - Michael Thomas (Thomas-10705)
* Ancestry.com, Public Member Trees (Provo, UT, USA, Ancestry.com Operations, Inc., 2006), www.ancestry.com, Database online. Record for William Seton. http://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=pubmembertrees&h=5657717&indiv=try.
=== Acknowledgements ===
* [[Geleick-1|Rhian Geleick]]
* [[Howard-6191 | Sue Howard]]
== Biography ==There is a great uncertainty regarding the lineage of Alan de Wynton and his parents have never been identified in original source material. The first notice of him is in Bain's Calendar of DocsCal. of Docs. , iii. 337. when he abducts Margaret Seton, Heiress of Seton. Andrew de Wyntoun, the English Historian,Cronykil; II p. 267 also notices him and Balfour Paul[[#S-1]] Balfour Paul; Vol 8, [https://archive.org/stream/scotspeeragefoun08pauluoft#page/570/mode/2up page 570] believes he may have been a distant relative. Winton (Wyntoun) were part of the Seton estates and held to the family of Seton of that Ilk (or Margaret's line), thus he was one of her tenants. Sir Bruce Gordon[[#S-2]] Sir Bruce Gordon Seton; [https://archive.org/stream/houseofsetonstv100seto#page/98/mode/2up page 99] provides greater insight. There had been an "Aleyn de Wynton" who had sworn fealty to Edward I. in 1296, among the barons of the county of Edinburgh (which encompasses East Lothian and the Seton estates); and a "Thomas de Wynton" who did likewise, among the barons of Ayrshire (which is on the other side of the country). A "Robert de "Winton" had a charter of Hirdmanston (an estate in Renfrewshire, generally held by the Sinclair of Roslyn) before 1300 from Robert I, and "Ingelram" and "Hugo de Winton" appear in a charter of 1343.
There is no doubt that the estate of Winton had been in the hands of the Setons for several generations. It is realistic to assume that it had been provided to one of the younger sons of a previous generations and from the estate that son derived his last name as a territorial name, a practice common amongst the Norman/Flemish migrants to Scotland. Sir Bruce Gordon Seton[[#S-2]] Sir Bruce Gordon Seton; [https://archive.org/stream/houseofsetonstv100seto#page/100/mode/2up page 100] speculates that this Alan de Wyntoun may well have been a descendant of a Philip de Seton, who owned Winton and died about 1195.
=== Abduction of Margaret Seton and Marriage ===The first historical notice of him occurs, in1347, when he abducts his overlord, the Heiress of Seton. It must be presumed that her father had died at this point, history suggests this event occurred between 1347 and 1349 and we can expect the two events coincided. She was evidently the Heiress and likely still young. She was clearly mature as the estates do not go into ward. The record, and suggested on her Profile, was that she was thus born about 1330. He is also mentioned as being young, young even when he takes up the Cross and travels to Jerusalem and was likely born about the same year; thus we could have a story of two young lovers seeking to find happiness where otherwise they would not have - well maybe.
This abduction was not popular, obviously, and created serious disruption in the community; creating "Wyntoun's war". According to FordunFordun: Scotichronicon; Vol. II p. 337 a hundred ploughs were laid aside in Lothian while the matter was under discussion. Lord Hailes says "some favoured the ravisher, others thought to bring him to punishment." It could therefore be presumed he had some support amongst the local community.
Wynton also mentions that "that William of Murray, whose sister had married Sir Alexander Seton, aided the young couple and took them into Edinburgh Castle of which he was Governor." This could only be viewed as justification by a relative and unlikely although that may have been where he escaped to seek protection. As Balfour Paul notes if Murray abetted De Wyntoun, the heiress can hardly have been, as some have held, daughter of the marriage between his own sister Margaret and Sir Alexander Seton.
There is a story, mentioned in both sources and sourced to Fordun, that complaint was made to the King, (which must have been David II.) and that Alan was apprehended. Margaret was then subjected to the ordeal of being blindfolded and made to choose between a sword and a ring. She chose the latter and they were then regarded as wed. Alan de Wyntoun never appears on the source record under the name of Seton.
=== Takes the Cross === He is noticed as having sought the cross apparently while still a young man, owing (according to Bower) to intrigues against him on the part of her relations, and died in the Holy Land.
We can only presume this to relate to the Alexandrian Crusade in 1365, although he seems to be already dead at this time, or, as Sir Alexander de Seton had been Master of the House of Torphichen of the Order of the Knights of St. John of Jerusalem up to his death in 1349, he may have joined that Order, or he went as a Pilgrim.
However he is known to have had two children by Margaret and he would have had to have given up all right to have joined the Order of the Knights of St. John of Jerusalem.
To support the Pilgrim option, there is a record of a deposit in London on his way abroad, where Alan de Wyntoun left 400 ducats of gold with one Nicholas Zucull a Venetian merchant. This would not have occurred if he was a member of the Knight of St. John. In 1363 his son "William of Wyntoun" authorised Adam Wymondham a citizen, and Nicholas Nogrebon, a Venetian to recover the money. The document states that Alan had died on his way to Mount Sinai, when about to visit the tomb of St. Katherine there.Rotuli Scotiae; Vol. 1. No. 879 His death must have occurred close to this event.
=== Family ===
With Margaret he had two children:
# [[Seton-212|William de Seton]]; likely born about 1350, who will inherit the lands and titles. It can be presumed that the lands of Winton were returned to the Seton line at this point as they certainly appear in Charters of William's children.# [[Seton-45|Margaret (or sometimes noticed as Christiana) Seton]], likely born about 1355. She is supposed to have been married to George, tenth Earl of Dunbar.[[#S-1]] Balfour Paul; Vol 8, [https://archive.org/stream/scotspeeragefoun08pauluoft#page/570/mode/2up page 570] and also noticed at Vol. 3, [https://archive.org/stream/scotspeeragefoun03pauluoft#page/272/mode/2up page 273].
Supporting the two young lovers theory; his wife outlived him but never remarried although she was still young when he died and, holding the estates of Seton, a prize.
== Sources ==
* Source S-1 }
* Source S-2 }
9/14/2014 - Michael Thomas (Thomas-10705)
* Ancestry.com, Public Member Trees (Provo, UT, USA, Ancestry.com Operations, Inc., 2006), www.ancestry.com, Database online. Record for William Seton. http://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=pubmembertrees&h=5657717&indiv=try.
=== Acknowledgements ===
* [[Geleick-1|Rhian Geleick]]
* [[Howard-6191 | Sue Howard]]
Events
| Birth | 1291 | Winton, East Lothian, Scotland | |||
| Marriage | 1347 | Seton, East Lothian, Scotland - Lady Margaret Seton | |||
| Death | 1347 | Jerusalem, Israel | |||
| Reference No | 10032245 | ||||
| Reference No | 10589554 | ||||
| Reference No | 60 |
Families
| Spouse | Lady Margaret Seton (1330 - 1360) |
| Child | Sir William Seton (1348 - 1409) |
| Child | Christina Seton (1355 - 1402) |
| Father | Alan Wyntown (1274 - 1355) |
| Mother | Margaret Murray (1274 - ) |