Individual Details
Hugh de Say
(1161 - 1197)
Palmer, History of Tamworth, p. 363
Robert de Ferrers, for his services in war against Maud's supporter, David k. of Scots, was, in 1138, created earl of Derby, by Stephen. He d. in 1139; leaving, by Hadewise,
i. Isolda, m. to Steph. de Beauchamp.
ii. Matilda, m. to Bertrand de Verdon. m. Robert, his heir.
iv. A dau., m. to Walcheline Maminot.
v. Walcheline, baron of Okeham, co.of Rutland, 1164 ; living 1191. He had i. Hugh, baron of Okeham, who m. the dau. and h. of Hugh de Say; living 1197, but d. p. u. Wil., d.v.p. and s. p. And m. Isabell, m. to Rog. de Mortimer; heiress of her brother.
**********************
Dugdale, William, The Baronage of England (1675), p. 266
Ferrers of Okam in Rutland.
THe first of this name, that feateda him∣self here, was Walcheline de
Ferrers,* a younger Sonb to William de Fetrers Earl of Derby, by
Margaret his Wife Daughter and Heir to William Peverel of Notingham:
Which Walcheline held*Okam, by the service of one Knights Fee and an
half in 12 Henr. 2. And in 22 Hen. 2. paidc an hundred marks for
trespassing in the Kings Forests in those parts.
In 33 Hen. 2. this Walcheline answeredd thirty shillings for one Knights
Fee and an half, upon collection of the Scutage of Galweye. And in 1
Ric. 1. was acquittede for the assarting of eighty Acres of Land within
the Forest of Roteland; Viz. in the Fields of Okham fifty five Acres; in
the fields of Braunceston twenty Acres, and in the fields of Broc five
Acres; so that he should not thenceforth pay any thing to the King, or
his Heirs for the same. But, that which is most memorable of him is; that
he wasf at that famous siege of Acon in the Holy-Land, with King
Richard, in 3 Ric. 1.
To whom succeeded Hugh de Ferrers his Song and Heir. Which Hugh*
in 9 R. 1. gaveh a Fine of three hundred marks to the King, to mar∣ry the
Daughter and Heir of Hugh de Say (of Richards-Castle.
This Hugh with the consenti of Walcheline his nephew and William his
Brother, gave kBroch in Roteland to the Canons of Re∣nilworth in Com.
Warr. which thenceforth be∣came a Celll to that Monastery: but dyingm
without issue, Isabeln his only Sister, Wifeo of Roger Lord.
Mortimer,•ecame hisp Heir. Which Isabel in 6 Ioh. gaveq a Fine to the
King of three hundred marks and one Horse for the great Saddle, for
liveryr of the Mannors of Leche∣lade, and Lagebiri, of the inheritance of
Hugh de Ferrers her Brother.
**********************
Palmer, History of Tamworth, p. 363
Robert de Ferrers, for his services in war against Maud's supporter, David k. of Scots, was, in 1138, created earl of Derby, by Stephen. He d. in 1139; leaving, by Hadewise,
i. Isolda, m. to Steph. de Beauchamp.
ii. Matilda, m. to Bertrand de Verdon. m. Robert, his heir.
iv. A dau., m. to Walcheline Maminot.
v. Walcheline, baron of Okeham, co.of Rutland, 1164 ; living 1191. He had i. Hugh, baron of Okeham, who m. the dau. and h. of Hugh de Say; living 1197, but d. p. u. Wil., d.v.p. and s. p. And m. Isabell, m. to Rog. de Mortimer; heiress of her brother.
*****************
The Historic Peerage of England, Nocholas Harris & William Courthope (1857). p. 425
SAY ( of Richard's Castle ).
Barons by Tenure.
I. Hen. II. 1. Hugh de Say, s. of Hugh s. of Helias de Say ; Lord of Richard's
Castle, co. Hereford, as heir to his bro. Osbcrt Fitz-Hugh;
ob. circa 1195.
II. Rich. I. 3. Richard de Say, s. and h. ; ob. s. p.
III. John. 3. Hugh de Say, bro. and h. ; died . . . leaving an only child Mar
garet, m. 1st, to Hugh de Ferrers, and 2ndly, to Robert de
Mortimer, to the latter of whom she carried Richard's Castle.
************
From Geni.com http://www.geni.com/people/Hugh-de-Say-II-of-Richard-s-Castle-5th-Baron-of-Burford/6000000002005901088
re Hugh de Say II of Richard's Castle, 5th Baron of Burford
Immediate Family:
Son of Hugh de Say of Richard's Castle, 4th Baron of Burford and Lucia de Say (de Clifford)
Husband of Mabel Marmion
Father of Lucy De Say; Margaret de Say of Richard's Castle, Baroness of Burford and Hugh FitzHugh de Say
About Hugh de Say II of Richard's Castle, 5th Baron of Burford
From http://www.rpi.edu/~holmes/Hobbies/Genealogy/ps25/ps25_453.htm
Cokayne, G.E. "Mortimer of Richard's Castle" in "The Complete Peerage" Vol. IX, pp.258.
From http://www.rpi.edu/~holmes/Hobbies/Genealogy/ps25/ps25_453.htm
Cokayne, G.E. "Mortimer of Richard's Castle" in "The Complete Peerage" Vol. IX, pp.258.
HUGH DE SAY, son and heir [of Hugh by Lucy de Clifford]. He was keeper of Norton Castle, in what is now co. Radnor, and fought under Richard I in Normandy in 1194. In 1195 he was in charge of the castle of Bleddfa in the March, now co. Radnor. In 1196 he and Roger de Mortimer of Wigmore were defeated near Radnor by the Welsh prince Rhys.
He married Mabel, daughter of Robert MARMION. He was assessed to the third scutage of the army in Normandy in 1196, and seems to have been living in the early part of 1197, but died s.p.m., before Michaelmas that year. His widow Mabel by Easter 1201 was married to Reynold [---]. She was dead before Michaelmas 1210. [Complete Peerage IX:258]
THE FIFTH "BARON BURFORD"
Hugh de Say of Richard's Castle died in the 1190 financial year and his son, Hugh (Fitzhugh) de Say was made responsible for the 11 pound, 10 shilling which Osbern Fitz Hugh had owed for scutage due on his 23 knights' fees in Herefordshire. The second Hugh Say seems to have been a much more warlike character than his father and this in the end may have been his undoing. In 1191 the Welsh seem to have been putting pressure on the lands around the Teme and Lugg valleys. As a consequence, the loyal barons of King Richard I ("The Lion Hearted") seem to have been ordered by the Chancellor to seize two Chandos castles, while the Chancellor himself, between 18 May and 8 July, forced Mortimer of Wigmore to surrender Wigmore Castle as Roger had been 'intriguing with the Welsh'. Towards the end of his life, Hugh decided to try to regain his position in Wales and joined the Marchers in the great royally backed campaign against the Prince of Deheubarth and his adherents in 1195. At Michaelmas that year it was recorded that Hugh de Say had been granted 100 shillings in aid of repairing Bleddfa (Bledwach) Castle, the vill of which had been held by Osbern Fitz Richard at Domesday.
In 1196 Rhys ap Gruffyd of Deheubarth attacked Radnor Castle and destroyed it and the town. No sooner was the castle destroyed than Roger Mortimer of Wigmore (d. 1214) and Hugh de Say of Burford drew up their forces 'in the valley near that town'. A great battle ensued and the Marchers were utterly defeated, with the alleged loss of some forty knights and an innumerable number of foot. However, a study of royal records at this time shows no losses at all amongst the known knightly followers of Mortimer, and the only death that can be suggested with any certainty in the Say lordship appears to be that of Hugh de Say himself! By early 1197 it would seem that Hugh Fitz Hugh de Say of Burford was dead and it seems possible that he either died at the battle or, as his death was not mentioned in the Welsh Chronciles, soon afterwards of his wounds. Around the same time it became obvious that another Helias de Say had succeeded his father Hugh at Stokesay.
http://www.castles99.ukprint.com/Essays/richards.html
Hugh de Say II of Richard's Castle, 5th Baron of Burford's Timeline
1161
1161
Birth of Hugh
Richards Castle, Worcestershire, England
1180
1180
Age 19
Birth of Lucy De Say
Of, Richard's Castle, Herefordshire, England
1182
1182
Age 21
Birth of Margaret de Say of Richard's Castle, Ba...
Richard's Castle, Ludlow, Herefordshire, England
1194
1194
Age 33
christened on 1194
1197
1197
Age 36
Death of Hugh at Richards Castle, Ludlow, Herefordsh...
Richards Castle, Ludlow, Herefordshire, England
1200
1200
Age 36
Birth of Hugh FitzHugh de Say
England
Robert de Ferrers, for his services in war against Maud's supporter, David k. of Scots, was, in 1138, created earl of Derby, by Stephen. He d. in 1139; leaving, by Hadewise,
i. Isolda, m. to Steph. de Beauchamp.
ii. Matilda, m. to Bertrand de Verdon. m. Robert, his heir.
iv. A dau., m. to Walcheline Maminot.
v. Walcheline, baron of Okeham, co.of Rutland, 1164 ; living 1191. He had i. Hugh, baron of Okeham, who m. the dau. and h. of Hugh de Say; living 1197, but d. p. u. Wil., d.v.p. and s. p. And m. Isabell, m. to Rog. de Mortimer; heiress of her brother.
**********************
Dugdale, William, The Baronage of England (1675), p. 266
Ferrers of Okam in Rutland.
THe first of this name, that feateda him∣self here, was Walcheline de
Ferrers,* a younger Sonb to William de Fetrers Earl of Derby, by
Margaret his Wife Daughter and Heir to William Peverel of Notingham:
Which Walcheline held*Okam, by the service of one Knights Fee and an
half in 12 Henr. 2. And in 22 Hen. 2. paidc an hundred marks for
trespassing in the Kings Forests in those parts.
In 33 Hen. 2. this Walcheline answeredd thirty shillings for one Knights
Fee and an half, upon collection of the Scutage of Galweye. And in 1
Ric. 1. was acquittede for the assarting of eighty Acres of Land within
the Forest of Roteland; Viz. in the Fields of Okham fifty five Acres; in
the fields of Braunceston twenty Acres, and in the fields of Broc five
Acres; so that he should not thenceforth pay any thing to the King, or
his Heirs for the same. But, that which is most memorable of him is; that
he wasf at that famous siege of Acon in the Holy-Land, with King
Richard, in 3 Ric. 1.
To whom succeeded Hugh de Ferrers his Song and Heir. Which Hugh*
in 9 R. 1. gaveh a Fine of three hundred marks to the King, to mar∣ry the
Daughter and Heir of Hugh de Say (of Richards-Castle.
This Hugh with the consenti of Walcheline his nephew and William his
Brother, gave kBroch in Roteland to the Canons of Re∣nilworth in Com.
Warr. which thenceforth be∣came a Celll to that Monastery: but dyingm
without issue, Isabeln his only Sister, Wifeo of Roger Lord.
Mortimer,•ecame hisp Heir. Which Isabel in 6 Ioh. gaveq a Fine to the
King of three hundred marks and one Horse for the great Saddle, for
liveryr of the Mannors of Leche∣lade, and Lagebiri, of the inheritance of
Hugh de Ferrers her Brother.
**********************
Palmer, History of Tamworth, p. 363
Robert de Ferrers, for his services in war against Maud's supporter, David k. of Scots, was, in 1138, created earl of Derby, by Stephen. He d. in 1139; leaving, by Hadewise,
i. Isolda, m. to Steph. de Beauchamp.
ii. Matilda, m. to Bertrand de Verdon. m. Robert, his heir.
iv. A dau., m. to Walcheline Maminot.
v. Walcheline, baron of Okeham, co.of Rutland, 1164 ; living 1191. He had i. Hugh, baron of Okeham, who m. the dau. and h. of Hugh de Say; living 1197, but d. p. u. Wil., d.v.p. and s. p. And m. Isabell, m. to Rog. de Mortimer; heiress of her brother.
*****************
The Historic Peerage of England, Nocholas Harris & William Courthope (1857). p. 425
SAY ( of Richard's Castle ).
Barons by Tenure.
I. Hen. II. 1. Hugh de Say, s. of Hugh s. of Helias de Say ; Lord of Richard's
Castle, co. Hereford, as heir to his bro. Osbcrt Fitz-Hugh;
ob. circa 1195.
II. Rich. I. 3. Richard de Say, s. and h. ; ob. s. p.
III. John. 3. Hugh de Say, bro. and h. ; died . . . leaving an only child Mar
garet, m. 1st, to Hugh de Ferrers, and 2ndly, to Robert de
Mortimer, to the latter of whom she carried Richard's Castle.
************
From Geni.com http://www.geni.com/people/Hugh-de-Say-II-of-Richard-s-Castle-5th-Baron-of-Burford/6000000002005901088
re Hugh de Say II of Richard's Castle, 5th Baron of Burford
Immediate Family:
Son of Hugh de Say of Richard's Castle, 4th Baron of Burford and Lucia de Say (de Clifford)
Husband of Mabel Marmion
Father of Lucy De Say; Margaret de Say of Richard's Castle, Baroness of Burford and Hugh FitzHugh de Say
About Hugh de Say II of Richard's Castle, 5th Baron of Burford
From http://www.rpi.edu/~holmes/Hobbies/Genealogy/ps25/ps25_453.htm
Cokayne, G.E. "Mortimer of Richard's Castle" in "The Complete Peerage" Vol. IX, pp.258.
From http://www.rpi.edu/~holmes/Hobbies/Genealogy/ps25/ps25_453.htm
Cokayne, G.E. "Mortimer of Richard's Castle" in "The Complete Peerage" Vol. IX, pp.258.
HUGH DE SAY, son and heir [of Hugh by Lucy de Clifford]. He was keeper of Norton Castle, in what is now co. Radnor, and fought under Richard I in Normandy in 1194. In 1195 he was in charge of the castle of Bleddfa in the March, now co. Radnor. In 1196 he and Roger de Mortimer of Wigmore were defeated near Radnor by the Welsh prince Rhys.
He married Mabel, daughter of Robert MARMION. He was assessed to the third scutage of the army in Normandy in 1196, and seems to have been living in the early part of 1197, but died s.p.m., before Michaelmas that year. His widow Mabel by Easter 1201 was married to Reynold [---]. She was dead before Michaelmas 1210. [Complete Peerage IX:258]
THE FIFTH "BARON BURFORD"
Hugh de Say of Richard's Castle died in the 1190 financial year and his son, Hugh (Fitzhugh) de Say was made responsible for the 11 pound, 10 shilling which Osbern Fitz Hugh had owed for scutage due on his 23 knights' fees in Herefordshire. The second Hugh Say seems to have been a much more warlike character than his father and this in the end may have been his undoing. In 1191 the Welsh seem to have been putting pressure on the lands around the Teme and Lugg valleys. As a consequence, the loyal barons of King Richard I ("The Lion Hearted") seem to have been ordered by the Chancellor to seize two Chandos castles, while the Chancellor himself, between 18 May and 8 July, forced Mortimer of Wigmore to surrender Wigmore Castle as Roger had been 'intriguing with the Welsh'. Towards the end of his life, Hugh decided to try to regain his position in Wales and joined the Marchers in the great royally backed campaign against the Prince of Deheubarth and his adherents in 1195. At Michaelmas that year it was recorded that Hugh de Say had been granted 100 shillings in aid of repairing Bleddfa (Bledwach) Castle, the vill of which had been held by Osbern Fitz Richard at Domesday.
In 1196 Rhys ap Gruffyd of Deheubarth attacked Radnor Castle and destroyed it and the town. No sooner was the castle destroyed than Roger Mortimer of Wigmore (d. 1214) and Hugh de Say of Burford drew up their forces 'in the valley near that town'. A great battle ensued and the Marchers were utterly defeated, with the alleged loss of some forty knights and an innumerable number of foot. However, a study of royal records at this time shows no losses at all amongst the known knightly followers of Mortimer, and the only death that can be suggested with any certainty in the Say lordship appears to be that of Hugh de Say himself! By early 1197 it would seem that Hugh Fitz Hugh de Say of Burford was dead and it seems possible that he either died at the battle or, as his death was not mentioned in the Welsh Chronciles, soon afterwards of his wounds. Around the same time it became obvious that another Helias de Say had succeeded his father Hugh at Stokesay.
http://www.castles99.ukprint.com/Essays/richards.html
Hugh de Say II of Richard's Castle, 5th Baron of Burford's Timeline
1161
1161
Birth of Hugh
Richards Castle, Worcestershire, England
1180
1180
Age 19
Birth of Lucy De Say
Of, Richard's Castle, Herefordshire, England
1182
1182
Age 21
Birth of Margaret de Say of Richard's Castle, Ba...
Richard's Castle, Ludlow, Herefordshire, England
1194
1194
Age 33
christened on 1194
1197
1197
Age 36
Death of Hugh at Richards Castle, Ludlow, Herefordsh...
Richards Castle, Ludlow, Herefordshire, England
1200
1200
Age 36
Birth of Hugh FitzHugh de Say
England
Events
| Birth | 1161 | ||||
| Death | 1197 | ||||
| Title (Nobility) | 5th Baron Bufford |
Families
| Spouse | Mabel Marmion ( - ) |
| Child | Margaret de Say (1182 - ) |
| Father | Hugh de Say of Richard's Castle de Say (1136 - 1190) |
| Mother | Lucia de Clifford ( - ) |