Individual Details
Walter Fitz Robert
(Bet 10 Feb 1216 and 18 Dec 1218 - Bef 10 Apr 1258)
Janet and Robert Wolfe Genealogy
http://www-personal.umich.edu/~bobwolfe/gen/mn/m27003x27007.htm
Notes for Walter Fitz Robert and Ida Longespée
1236 August 3 [Woodstock], King Henry III gave "confirmation of a charter of Ela, Countess of Salisbury, giving, for the good of the souls of earl William Lungespee her husband and of William Lungespee her eldest son and of all her children, to St. Mary and St. Bernard and the nuns at Lacok, the manor of Lacok with the avowedson of the church there, the manor of Hatherop, the [land] which the canons of Bindonstok held there, for which an exchange was made to them, the manor of Bisshopestre, with 10 l. receivable yearly from ... of the manors of Shiperige and Henton, and the avowedson of the church of Winterburn Shryveton." [1]
1239 December 18 "[No date]. The fine of Walter fitz Robert. Walter fitz Robert has made fine by 300 m. for having seisin of the lands formerly of Robert fitz Walter, his father, which were in the king’s custody. He is to render the aforesaid 300 m. within three years, namely 50 m. at Michaelmas in the twenty-fourth year, and 50 m. at Easter in the twenty-fifth year, and 100 m. thus from year to year at the same terms until the aforesaid 300 m. are paid to the king." [2]
1239/40 February 24 "[No date]. The fine of Walter fitz Robert. Walter fitz Robert has made fine with the king by £447 3s. 10d. for having the king’s plough teams which are in the lands of the same Walter which the king had with him in custody, and for having the corn of the same king which is in the granges from the year last past, and similarly the corn in the aforesaid lands ploughed into the soil, and he is to render the aforesaid money to the king within three years, namely 223 m. 7s. 11d. per annum. In the first year, namely the twenty-fourth, he is to render 40 m. at St. John the Baptist and a moiety of the remaining aforesaid 223 m. 7s. 11d. of that first year at Michaelmas in the same year, and the other moiety at Easter in the twenty-fifth year; and in the following two years he is to render a moiety of the whole at Michaelmas and the other moiety at Easter." [3]
1242 "4 Nov. Westminster. For Master Laurence de St. Martin concerning scutage. Order to the sheriff of Suffolk to place in respite, until 15 days from the Close of Easter in the twenty-seventh year, the scutage that he exacts from the fees which Walter fitz Robert held in his bailiwick of the honour of Rayleigh, and for which scutage Master Laurence de St. Martin is distrained in Essex by reason of the manor of Little Horkesley, which is in the aforesaid honour, being in his hand and being the chief of the aforesaid fees. If he has taken anything therefrom in the same bailiwick, he is to cause it to be restored to the bailiff of the aforesaid Laurence . Witness W. archbishop of York." [4]
1261 "5 Aug. Windsor. For Geoffrey de Lusignan. To the sheriff of Essex. Whereas some time ago now the king gave to Edward, his son, the custody of the lands of Walter fitz Robert until the lawful age of Walter’s heirs, and Edward granted the manor of Henham with appurtenances, formerly of the aforesaid Walter, to Geoffrey de Lusignan, the king’s [half-]brother, to have until the lawful age of the aforesaid heirs, and whereas after the withdrawal of the king’s same [half-]brother from England the same manor was taken into the king’s hand and demised at farm to Ida, who was the wife of the same Walter, as the king has heard, the king has restored the said manor to his same [half-]brother with appurtenances, saving to the aforesaid Ida the corn of the aforesaid manor of this autumn and all other issues and revenues of the same manor until Michaelmas next to come, together with the farm of the same term, so that Ida shall render to Geoffrey the farm that she ought to render to the king at the said term for the aforesaid manor, and Geoffrey shall hold the aforesaid manor from then on until the lawful age of the aforesaid heirs according to the form of the aforesaid grant of the king’s son made to him. Order to cause Geoffrey or his attorney to have full seisin of the custody of the aforesaid manor with appurtenances, as aforesaid." [5]
1261 October 8 "Pro Galfrido de Lezyniaco. —Rex Ide que fuit uxor Walteri filii Roberti salutem. Cum dudum concesserimus Edwardo filio nostro custodiam terrarum predicti Walteri, quondam mariti vestri, usque ad legitimam etatem heredum ejusdem Walteri, ac idem Edwardus dilecto fratri nostro Galfrido de Leziniaco manerium de Henham, quod fuit predicti Walteri, concesserit habendum usque ad legitimam etatem predictorum heredum, et demum post recessum ipsius fratris nostri ab Anglia manerium illud in manum nostram ceperimus et dimiserimus vobis ad beneplacitum nostrum, nosque nuper eidem fratri nostro manerium illud cum pertinenciis reddiderimus, salvis vobis bladis autumpni ultimo transacti et omnibus aliis exitibus et proventibus ejusdem manerii usque ad festum Sancti Michaelis proximo preteritum una cum firma ejusdem termini; ita quod vos reddatis prefato Galfrido firmam quam nobis reddere debuistis ad dictum terminum pro manerio predicto; vobis mandamus quod prefato fratri nostro vel ejus certo attornato has litteras deferenti de predicto manerio cum pertinenciis plenam seisinam habere et firmam illam sibi persolvi faciatis sicut predictum est. Teste rege apud Sanctum Paulum Lond' viij. die Octobris." [6]
1263 April "559. Hugh de Cressy. Writ, 24 April, 47 Hen. III. Stephen de Cressy, his brother, aged 40 and more, is his heir. [Kent.] Extent (undated). Herietesham manor, held of the king in chief by service of 1 knight's fee pertaining to the barony of Peverel. [Kent.J Extent (undated). Trotteclieve manor, held of the bishop of Rochester by service of 1/2 knight's fee. [...] Inq. Wednesday the vigil of the Ascension (fragment) ... 2 knights' fees, held by service of 2 knights' fees. [Suffolk.] Extent, Tuesday after St. John ante Portam Latinam, 47 Hen. III. Bliburg' manor (extent given), including 39a. heath and pasture in Launde, held of the king in chief by service of 1 knight's fee. [Suffolk.] Reydon manor, held of the heirs of Sir Walter son of Robert; whence Lady Isabel de Cresy receives 34 l. yearly in dower. Ruchaye, held of John Roscelin who takes 100s. yearly. Glemham, held of Sir John Grey by 1 knight's fee. Norfolk. Horsford manor, held of the king of Almain, service unspecified. [Norfolk.] Ling manor, held of Sir Peter de Sabadia, service unspecified. Ketteringham manor, held of the earl of Oxford by the courtesy of England, service unspecified. C. Hen. III. File 28. (14.) [7]
Research Notes:
"Walter FitzRobert of Woodham Walter, Essex, son of ROBERT FitzWalter & his second wife Rohese --- (-shortly before 10 Apr 1258). Bracton records an inquiry, dated 1234/35, whether "Cristiana de Mandevilla soror Walteri filii Roberti" was seised of part of land "in Dersingham", which descended to her "ex parte Gunnore matris sue" and was inherited by "Henricus de Bailloil et Lora uxor eius" because "idem Walterus non fuit frater predicte Cristiane nisi ex parte patris"[827].
m (before 1247) IDA de Longespee, daughter of WILLIAM Longespee Earl of Salisbury & his wife Ela Ctss of Salisbury (-after 10 Apr 1262). The Book of Lacock names “Isabellam de Vescy…Elam…Idam de Camyle” as the daughters of “Guillelmus Longespe ex…Ela”, adding that Ida married “Walterus filius Roberti” by whom she had “Catarinam et Loricam…velatæ…apud Lacock, Elam, quam duxit primo Guillelmus de Dodingseles, de qua genuit ---, Robertum, qui Dernogoill ---“[828]. " [Tag-Link.http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/ENGLISHNOBILITYMEDIEVAL3D-K.htm#WalterFitzRobertdied1258, Foundation for Medieval Genealogy, Untitled English Nobility D - K, Chapter 18, A]
In an update, Douglas Richardson wrote [https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en&pli=1#!searchin/soc.genealogy.medieval/Ida$20Longesp%C3%A9e/soc.genealogy.medieval/R7GPv7bJv2s/zfZv3EXcwKkJ, soc.genealogy.medieval website]: "There has been discussion in the past on the newsgroup regarding the placement of Ida Longespée, wife of Walter Fitz Robert, in the Longespée family tree. Complete Peerage, 5 (1926): 472 (sub FitzWalter) identifies Ida as "daughter of William (Longespée), Earl of Salisbury." The William Longespée intended here is presumably William Longespée I who died in 1226, not his son, William II, who died in 1250. If so, this would give Earl William Longespée I and his wife, Ela, two adult daughters named Ida, one of whom married Walter Fitz Robert, and the other who married William de Beauchamp. Curiously Complete Peerage, 11 (1949): 381-382 footnote k (sub Salisbury) confuses Walter Fitz Robert's wife Ida with her sister of the same name who married William de Beauchamp; it also misidentifies Walter Fitz Robert's parentage.
The identification of Ida, wife of Walter Fitz Robert, as a Longespée has traditionally rested on a pedigree of the Longespée family found in Lacock Priory cartulary. This pedigree lists the various children of William Longespée I, Earl of Salisbury, and his wife, Ela of Salisbury, including:
"Idam de Camyle, quam duxit in uxorem Walterus fil. Roberti, de qua genuit Catherinam et Loricam, quæ velatæ erant apud Lacok; Elam, quam duxit primo Guillelmus de Dodingeseles, de qua genuit Robertum") [Reference: Dugdale, Monasticon Anglicanum, 6(1) (1830): 501].
It is not known exactly why Ida Longespée is here styled Ida de Camyle in this record. I've assumed, however, that Ida may have had a brief Camville marriage previous to her known marriage to Walter Fitz Robert. If so, a previous Camvillle marriage would explain her use of the Camville surname as a grown adult. Ida's older brother, William Longespée II, is known, for example, to have married a member of the Camville family.
There are two contemporary records which prove that Ida, wife of Walter Fitz Robert, was in fact a Longespée. The first record comes from List of Ancient Correspondence of the Chancery and Exchequer, which source contains an abstract of a letter dated 1261-1263 from Ida, widow of Walter Fitz Robert, written to Walter de Merton, the king's chancellor, in which Ida specifically styles herself Ida Longespée:
"152. Ida Longespée, widow of Walter Fitz Robert, to the same [Walter de Merton, Chancellor]: to bail two of her men appealed of homicide. [1261-1263]." [Reference: List of Ancient Correspondence of the Chancery and Exchequer (PRO Lists and Indexes 15) (1902): 107-108].
Elsewhere I find that Calendar of Liberate Rolls 5 (1961): 93 likewise refers to Ida, widow of Walter Fitz Robert, as "Ida Lungespee:"
Date: 11 May 1162 — “Liberate to Geoffrey de Lezinan, the king’s brother, 40l. in recompense of a like sum received there of the issues of the manor of Henham [Essex] by the hands of Ida Lungespee." END OF QUOTE.
To date to my knowledge no one has discovered Ida Longespée's maritagium, although she certainly had one in marriage. Recently I encountered a record which evidently concerns her maritagium. The record in question is a Wiltshire pleading which dates from 1249:
"Walter son of Robert and Ida his wife, by Ida's attorney by writ of the present king, who brought an assize of novel disseisin against William Lungepeie for holdings in Scepperingge and Heniton, Farlegh' and Bidinham, have come and withdrawn by licence. It is agreed between them that Walter and Ida had put themselves utterly in William's grace for those holdings." [Reference: Clanchy, Civil Pleas of the Wiltshire Eyre 1249 (Wiltshire Rec. Soc. 26) (1971): 152].
The lands involved in this lawsuit can be identified as Sheepbridge (in Swallowfield), Hinton (in Hurst), Farley [Hill] (in Swallowfield), and Diddenham (in Shinfield), all in modern Berkshire but formerly in Wiltshire. These lands were apparently held by William Longespée I and his wife, Countess Ela.
VCH Berkshire 3 (1923): 267-274 states that Sheepbridge "belonged with Hinton in 1236 to Ela, Countess of Salisbury." Countess Ela named here was the widow of William Longespée I.
Countess Ela's charter is undated but surely must date from around 1236. My files notes show the following information:
"In Feb. 1236 her son and heir, William Longespée, guaranteed her gifts to Lacock Abbey, while she agreed to surrender all her lands, rents and rights to him on 1 Nov. following. On 25 Oct. 1236 Ela, Countess of Salisbury, reached agreement with William Longespée, her first born son, that she may grant a moiety of the manor of Heddington, Wiltshire to Lacock Priory, which property fell to her on the death of Maud de Mandeville, Countess of Essex and Hereford. In the winter 1236–7 she resigned her custody of the county of Wiltshire. She subsequently entered her religious foundation at Lacock, where she took the veil before spring 1238." End of quote from my file notes.
Following Countess Ela's surrender of her lands to her son, William Longespée II, he in turn granted the four properties in question, namely Sheepbridge, Hinton, Farley, and Diddenham, to his seneschal, Sir Henry de la Mare. The date of this grant is sometime before 1239-40.
1277 Sir Henry de la Mare was involved in a legal action concerning these four properties. [8]
So the question arises: When did Walter Fitz Robert and his wife, Ida Longespée, acquire their interest in the four properties? The answer to that question is not exact but surely it must have dated from the time that Countess Ela of Salisbury was holding these properties and before 1 Nov. 1236 when Countess Ela surrendered all her lands, rents, and rights to her son, William Longespée II. Walter and Ida can't have acquired their interest from William Longespée II, as once his mother released her lands to him, he almost immediately conveyed these four properties to his seneschal, Sir Henry de la Mare. One of these properties, Hinton, subsequently descended to Sir Henry de la Mare's daughter and heiress, Maud, wife of Peter de Montfort, and thence to her descendants [see VCH Berkshire 3 (1923): 247–260].
So besides knowing that Walter Fitz Robert and Ida Longespée obtained their interest in the properties before 1236, what else can we know? More specifically, why would Ida claim these lands, if her brother had granted them to his seneschal?
The answer to this question is not clear but a reasonable guess would be that these four properties were put up as Ida's maritagium when she was contracted to marry a Camville and that when the contracted Camville marriage failed to materialize or produced no issue, by the terms of the marriage contract, the lands returned to Ida's family. At that point, Ida's claim to the lands was essentially voided. This in turn would explain why Ida's brother, William Longespée II, felt free to grant these lands elsewhere to Sir Henry de la Mare.
In summary, adequate evidence has been located which indicates that Ida, wife of Walter Fitz Robert, was a Longespée. In 1249 Walter Fitz Robert and his wife, Ida, sued William Longespée II regarding four properties then in Wiltshire, but now in Berkshire. The four properties in question were apparently part of the inheritance of Ida's mother, Countess Ela, who appears to have controlled the lands until 1236, when she released her lands to her son, William Longespée II. Ida's rights must predate 1236, as William Longespée II almost immediately conveyed these properties before 1239-40 to his seneschal, Sir Henry de la Mare. Thus William Longespée II can not have offered them as Ida's maritagium. This in turn implies that Ida Longespée was the daughter of William Longespée I and his wife, Countess Ela, and not William Longespée II."
Footnotes:
[1] Calendar of the Charter Rolls, Henry III, 1226-1257 (London: HMSO, 1903), 221, [Google_Book].
[2] Henry III Fine Rolls Project, Fine Rolls of Henry III, Fine Rolls of Henry III, 24/31 (18 December 1239), [Fine_Rolls_Project].
[3] Henry III Fine Rolls Project, Fine Rolls of Henry III, Fine Rolls of Henry III, 24/48 (24 February 1240), [Fine_Rolls_Project].
[4] Henry III Fine Rolls Project, Fine Rolls of Henry III, Fine Rolls of Henry III, 27/2 (04 November 1242), [Fine_Rolls_Project].
[5] Henry III Fine Rolls Project, Fine Rolls of Henry III, Fine Rolls of Henry III, 45/866 (05 August 1261), [Fine_Rolls_Project].
[6] A. E. Stamp, ed., Calendar of the Close Rolls, Henry III, Vol. 11, 1259-1261 (London: HMSO, 1934), 445, [Google_Book].
[7] Calendar of Inquisitions Post Mortem, Vol. 1, Henry III (London: HMSO, 1904), 170, Item 559, [Google_Book], [HathiTrust].
[8] F. W. Maitland, ed., and Henry of Bratton, Bracton's Note Book. A Collection of Cases decided in the King's Courts during the Reign of Henry the Third, Vol. 3 (London: Clay and Sons, 1887), 286–287, [Google_Book].
http://www-personal.umich.edu/~bobwolfe/gen/mn/m27003x27007.htm
Notes for Walter Fitz Robert and Ida Longespée
1236 August 3 [Woodstock], King Henry III gave "confirmation of a charter of Ela, Countess of Salisbury, giving, for the good of the souls of earl William Lungespee her husband and of William Lungespee her eldest son and of all her children, to St. Mary and St. Bernard and the nuns at Lacok, the manor of Lacok with the avowedson of the church there, the manor of Hatherop, the [land] which the canons of Bindonstok held there, for which an exchange was made to them, the manor of Bisshopestre, with 10 l. receivable yearly from ... of the manors of Shiperige and Henton, and the avowedson of the church of Winterburn Shryveton." [1]
1239 December 18 "[No date]. The fine of Walter fitz Robert. Walter fitz Robert has made fine by 300 m. for having seisin of the lands formerly of Robert fitz Walter, his father, which were in the king’s custody. He is to render the aforesaid 300 m. within three years, namely 50 m. at Michaelmas in the twenty-fourth year, and 50 m. at Easter in the twenty-fifth year, and 100 m. thus from year to year at the same terms until the aforesaid 300 m. are paid to the king." [2]
1239/40 February 24 "[No date]. The fine of Walter fitz Robert. Walter fitz Robert has made fine with the king by £447 3s. 10d. for having the king’s plough teams which are in the lands of the same Walter which the king had with him in custody, and for having the corn of the same king which is in the granges from the year last past, and similarly the corn in the aforesaid lands ploughed into the soil, and he is to render the aforesaid money to the king within three years, namely 223 m. 7s. 11d. per annum. In the first year, namely the twenty-fourth, he is to render 40 m. at St. John the Baptist and a moiety of the remaining aforesaid 223 m. 7s. 11d. of that first year at Michaelmas in the same year, and the other moiety at Easter in the twenty-fifth year; and in the following two years he is to render a moiety of the whole at Michaelmas and the other moiety at Easter." [3]
1242 "4 Nov. Westminster. For Master Laurence de St. Martin concerning scutage. Order to the sheriff of Suffolk to place in respite, until 15 days from the Close of Easter in the twenty-seventh year, the scutage that he exacts from the fees which Walter fitz Robert held in his bailiwick of the honour of Rayleigh, and for which scutage Master Laurence de St. Martin is distrained in Essex by reason of the manor of Little Horkesley, which is in the aforesaid honour, being in his hand and being the chief of the aforesaid fees. If he has taken anything therefrom in the same bailiwick, he is to cause it to be restored to the bailiff of the aforesaid Laurence . Witness W. archbishop of York." [4]
1261 "5 Aug. Windsor. For Geoffrey de Lusignan. To the sheriff of Essex. Whereas some time ago now the king gave to Edward, his son, the custody of the lands of Walter fitz Robert until the lawful age of Walter’s heirs, and Edward granted the manor of Henham with appurtenances, formerly of the aforesaid Walter, to Geoffrey de Lusignan, the king’s [half-]brother, to have until the lawful age of the aforesaid heirs, and whereas after the withdrawal of the king’s same [half-]brother from England the same manor was taken into the king’s hand and demised at farm to Ida, who was the wife of the same Walter, as the king has heard, the king has restored the said manor to his same [half-]brother with appurtenances, saving to the aforesaid Ida the corn of the aforesaid manor of this autumn and all other issues and revenues of the same manor until Michaelmas next to come, together with the farm of the same term, so that Ida shall render to Geoffrey the farm that she ought to render to the king at the said term for the aforesaid manor, and Geoffrey shall hold the aforesaid manor from then on until the lawful age of the aforesaid heirs according to the form of the aforesaid grant of the king’s son made to him. Order to cause Geoffrey or his attorney to have full seisin of the custody of the aforesaid manor with appurtenances, as aforesaid." [5]
1261 October 8 "Pro Galfrido de Lezyniaco. —Rex Ide que fuit uxor Walteri filii Roberti salutem. Cum dudum concesserimus Edwardo filio nostro custodiam terrarum predicti Walteri, quondam mariti vestri, usque ad legitimam etatem heredum ejusdem Walteri, ac idem Edwardus dilecto fratri nostro Galfrido de Leziniaco manerium de Henham, quod fuit predicti Walteri, concesserit habendum usque ad legitimam etatem predictorum heredum, et demum post recessum ipsius fratris nostri ab Anglia manerium illud in manum nostram ceperimus et dimiserimus vobis ad beneplacitum nostrum, nosque nuper eidem fratri nostro manerium illud cum pertinenciis reddiderimus, salvis vobis bladis autumpni ultimo transacti et omnibus aliis exitibus et proventibus ejusdem manerii usque ad festum Sancti Michaelis proximo preteritum una cum firma ejusdem termini; ita quod vos reddatis prefato Galfrido firmam quam nobis reddere debuistis ad dictum terminum pro manerio predicto; vobis mandamus quod prefato fratri nostro vel ejus certo attornato has litteras deferenti de predicto manerio cum pertinenciis plenam seisinam habere et firmam illam sibi persolvi faciatis sicut predictum est. Teste rege apud Sanctum Paulum Lond' viij. die Octobris." [6]
1263 April "559. Hugh de Cressy. Writ, 24 April, 47 Hen. III. Stephen de Cressy, his brother, aged 40 and more, is his heir. [Kent.] Extent (undated). Herietesham manor, held of the king in chief by service of 1 knight's fee pertaining to the barony of Peverel. [Kent.J Extent (undated). Trotteclieve manor, held of the bishop of Rochester by service of 1/2 knight's fee. [...] Inq. Wednesday the vigil of the Ascension (fragment) ... 2 knights' fees, held by service of 2 knights' fees. [Suffolk.] Extent, Tuesday after St. John ante Portam Latinam, 47 Hen. III. Bliburg' manor (extent given), including 39a. heath and pasture in Launde, held of the king in chief by service of 1 knight's fee. [Suffolk.] Reydon manor, held of the heirs of Sir Walter son of Robert; whence Lady Isabel de Cresy receives 34 l. yearly in dower. Ruchaye, held of John Roscelin who takes 100s. yearly. Glemham, held of Sir John Grey by 1 knight's fee. Norfolk. Horsford manor, held of the king of Almain, service unspecified. [Norfolk.] Ling manor, held of Sir Peter de Sabadia, service unspecified. Ketteringham manor, held of the earl of Oxford by the courtesy of England, service unspecified. C. Hen. III. File 28. (14.) [7]
Research Notes:
"Walter FitzRobert of Woodham Walter, Essex, son of ROBERT FitzWalter & his second wife Rohese --- (-shortly before 10 Apr 1258). Bracton records an inquiry, dated 1234/35, whether "Cristiana de Mandevilla soror Walteri filii Roberti" was seised of part of land "in Dersingham", which descended to her "ex parte Gunnore matris sue" and was inherited by "Henricus de Bailloil et Lora uxor eius" because "idem Walterus non fuit frater predicte Cristiane nisi ex parte patris"[827].
m (before 1247) IDA de Longespee, daughter of WILLIAM Longespee Earl of Salisbury & his wife Ela Ctss of Salisbury (-after 10 Apr 1262). The Book of Lacock names “Isabellam de Vescy…Elam…Idam de Camyle” as the daughters of “Guillelmus Longespe ex…Ela”, adding that Ida married “Walterus filius Roberti” by whom she had “Catarinam et Loricam…velatæ…apud Lacock, Elam, quam duxit primo Guillelmus de Dodingseles, de qua genuit ---, Robertum, qui Dernogoill ---“[828]. " [Tag-Link.http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/ENGLISHNOBILITYMEDIEVAL3D-K.htm#WalterFitzRobertdied1258, Foundation for Medieval Genealogy, Untitled English Nobility D - K, Chapter 18, A]
In an update, Douglas Richardson wrote [https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en&pli=1#!searchin/soc.genealogy.medieval/Ida$20Longesp%C3%A9e/soc.genealogy.medieval/R7GPv7bJv2s/zfZv3EXcwKkJ, soc.genealogy.medieval website]: "There has been discussion in the past on the newsgroup regarding the placement of Ida Longespée, wife of Walter Fitz Robert, in the Longespée family tree. Complete Peerage, 5 (1926): 472 (sub FitzWalter) identifies Ida as "daughter of William (Longespée), Earl of Salisbury." The William Longespée intended here is presumably William Longespée I who died in 1226, not his son, William II, who died in 1250. If so, this would give Earl William Longespée I and his wife, Ela, two adult daughters named Ida, one of whom married Walter Fitz Robert, and the other who married William de Beauchamp. Curiously Complete Peerage, 11 (1949): 381-382 footnote k (sub Salisbury) confuses Walter Fitz Robert's wife Ida with her sister of the same name who married William de Beauchamp; it also misidentifies Walter Fitz Robert's parentage.
The identification of Ida, wife of Walter Fitz Robert, as a Longespée has traditionally rested on a pedigree of the Longespée family found in Lacock Priory cartulary. This pedigree lists the various children of William Longespée I, Earl of Salisbury, and his wife, Ela of Salisbury, including:
"Idam de Camyle, quam duxit in uxorem Walterus fil. Roberti, de qua genuit Catherinam et Loricam, quæ velatæ erant apud Lacok; Elam, quam duxit primo Guillelmus de Dodingeseles, de qua genuit Robertum") [Reference: Dugdale, Monasticon Anglicanum, 6(1) (1830): 501].
It is not known exactly why Ida Longespée is here styled Ida de Camyle in this record. I've assumed, however, that Ida may have had a brief Camville marriage previous to her known marriage to Walter Fitz Robert. If so, a previous Camvillle marriage would explain her use of the Camville surname as a grown adult. Ida's older brother, William Longespée II, is known, for example, to have married a member of the Camville family.
There are two contemporary records which prove that Ida, wife of Walter Fitz Robert, was in fact a Longespée. The first record comes from List of Ancient Correspondence of the Chancery and Exchequer, which source contains an abstract of a letter dated 1261-1263 from Ida, widow of Walter Fitz Robert, written to Walter de Merton, the king's chancellor, in which Ida specifically styles herself Ida Longespée:
"152. Ida Longespée, widow of Walter Fitz Robert, to the same [Walter de Merton, Chancellor]: to bail two of her men appealed of homicide. [1261-1263]." [Reference: List of Ancient Correspondence of the Chancery and Exchequer (PRO Lists and Indexes 15) (1902): 107-108].
Elsewhere I find that Calendar of Liberate Rolls 5 (1961): 93 likewise refers to Ida, widow of Walter Fitz Robert, as "Ida Lungespee:"
Date: 11 May 1162 — “Liberate to Geoffrey de Lezinan, the king’s brother, 40l. in recompense of a like sum received there of the issues of the manor of Henham [Essex] by the hands of Ida Lungespee." END OF QUOTE.
To date to my knowledge no one has discovered Ida Longespée's maritagium, although she certainly had one in marriage. Recently I encountered a record which evidently concerns her maritagium. The record in question is a Wiltshire pleading which dates from 1249:
"Walter son of Robert and Ida his wife, by Ida's attorney by writ of the present king, who brought an assize of novel disseisin against William Lungepeie for holdings in Scepperingge and Heniton, Farlegh' and Bidinham, have come and withdrawn by licence. It is agreed between them that Walter and Ida had put themselves utterly in William's grace for those holdings." [Reference: Clanchy, Civil Pleas of the Wiltshire Eyre 1249 (Wiltshire Rec. Soc. 26) (1971): 152].
The lands involved in this lawsuit can be identified as Sheepbridge (in Swallowfield), Hinton (in Hurst), Farley [Hill] (in Swallowfield), and Diddenham (in Shinfield), all in modern Berkshire but formerly in Wiltshire. These lands were apparently held by William Longespée I and his wife, Countess Ela.
VCH Berkshire 3 (1923): 267-274 states that Sheepbridge "belonged with Hinton in 1236 to Ela, Countess of Salisbury." Countess Ela named here was the widow of William Longespée I.
Countess Ela's charter is undated but surely must date from around 1236. My files notes show the following information:
"In Feb. 1236 her son and heir, William Longespée, guaranteed her gifts to Lacock Abbey, while she agreed to surrender all her lands, rents and rights to him on 1 Nov. following. On 25 Oct. 1236 Ela, Countess of Salisbury, reached agreement with William Longespée, her first born son, that she may grant a moiety of the manor of Heddington, Wiltshire to Lacock Priory, which property fell to her on the death of Maud de Mandeville, Countess of Essex and Hereford. In the winter 1236–7 she resigned her custody of the county of Wiltshire. She subsequently entered her religious foundation at Lacock, where she took the veil before spring 1238." End of quote from my file notes.
Following Countess Ela's surrender of her lands to her son, William Longespée II, he in turn granted the four properties in question, namely Sheepbridge, Hinton, Farley, and Diddenham, to his seneschal, Sir Henry de la Mare. The date of this grant is sometime before 1239-40.
1277 Sir Henry de la Mare was involved in a legal action concerning these four properties. [8]
So the question arises: When did Walter Fitz Robert and his wife, Ida Longespée, acquire their interest in the four properties? The answer to that question is not exact but surely it must have dated from the time that Countess Ela of Salisbury was holding these properties and before 1 Nov. 1236 when Countess Ela surrendered all her lands, rents, and rights to her son, William Longespée II. Walter and Ida can't have acquired their interest from William Longespée II, as once his mother released her lands to him, he almost immediately conveyed these four properties to his seneschal, Sir Henry de la Mare. One of these properties, Hinton, subsequently descended to Sir Henry de la Mare's daughter and heiress, Maud, wife of Peter de Montfort, and thence to her descendants [see VCH Berkshire 3 (1923): 247–260].
So besides knowing that Walter Fitz Robert and Ida Longespée obtained their interest in the properties before 1236, what else can we know? More specifically, why would Ida claim these lands, if her brother had granted them to his seneschal?
The answer to this question is not clear but a reasonable guess would be that these four properties were put up as Ida's maritagium when she was contracted to marry a Camville and that when the contracted Camville marriage failed to materialize or produced no issue, by the terms of the marriage contract, the lands returned to Ida's family. At that point, Ida's claim to the lands was essentially voided. This in turn would explain why Ida's brother, William Longespée II, felt free to grant these lands elsewhere to Sir Henry de la Mare.
In summary, adequate evidence has been located which indicates that Ida, wife of Walter Fitz Robert, was a Longespée. In 1249 Walter Fitz Robert and his wife, Ida, sued William Longespée II regarding four properties then in Wiltshire, but now in Berkshire. The four properties in question were apparently part of the inheritance of Ida's mother, Countess Ela, who appears to have controlled the lands until 1236, when she released her lands to her son, William Longespée II. Ida's rights must predate 1236, as William Longespée II almost immediately conveyed these properties before 1239-40 to his seneschal, Sir Henry de la Mare. Thus William Longespée II can not have offered them as Ida's maritagium. This in turn implies that Ida Longespée was the daughter of William Longespée I and his wife, Countess Ela, and not William Longespée II."
Footnotes:
[1] Calendar of the Charter Rolls, Henry III, 1226-1257 (London: HMSO, 1903), 221, [Google_Book].
[2] Henry III Fine Rolls Project, Fine Rolls of Henry III, Fine Rolls of Henry III, 24/31 (18 December 1239), [Fine_Rolls_Project].
[3] Henry III Fine Rolls Project, Fine Rolls of Henry III, Fine Rolls of Henry III, 24/48 (24 February 1240), [Fine_Rolls_Project].
[4] Henry III Fine Rolls Project, Fine Rolls of Henry III, Fine Rolls of Henry III, 27/2 (04 November 1242), [Fine_Rolls_Project].
[5] Henry III Fine Rolls Project, Fine Rolls of Henry III, Fine Rolls of Henry III, 45/866 (05 August 1261), [Fine_Rolls_Project].
[6] A. E. Stamp, ed., Calendar of the Close Rolls, Henry III, Vol. 11, 1259-1261 (London: HMSO, 1934), 445, [Google_Book].
[7] Calendar of Inquisitions Post Mortem, Vol. 1, Henry III (London: HMSO, 1904), 170, Item 559, [Google_Book], [HathiTrust].
[8] F. W. Maitland, ed., and Henry of Bratton, Bracton's Note Book. A Collection of Cases decided in the King's Courts during the Reign of Henry the Third, Vol. 3 (London: Clay and Sons, 1887), 286–287, [Google_Book].
Events
| Birth | Bet 10 Feb 1216 and 18 Dec 1218 | ||||
| Death | Bef 10 Apr 1258 |
Families
| Spouse | Ida Longespée ( - ) |
| Child | Ela Fitz Walter ( - ) |
| Child | Robert fitz Walter (1247 - 1326) |
| Father | Robert fitz Walter ( - 1235) |
| Mother | Rohese (?) ( - ) |