Individual Details
Bivin of Vienna
(822 - Bet 865 and 869)
According to Wikipedia:
Bivin of Gorze (810/830-863) was a Frank founder of the Bivinids family. He was married to a daughter of Boso the Elder, who may have been called Richildis. During his life he functioned as lay abbot of the Gorze Abbey.[1] His offspring includes:
Richildis, who married King Charles the Bald;[1]
Richard the Justiciar, Duke of Burgundy;
Boso, King of Provence;
possibly Bivin, Count of Metz.
Notes
Pierre Riche, The Carolingians: The Family who Forged Europe, transl. Michael Idomir Allen, (University of Pennsylvania Press, 1983), 198.
Sources
Pierre Riché, The Carolingians, a family who forged Europe.
According to the French version of Wikipedia:
Bivin Vienna or Beuves, Buwin, Bouvin, Bouin, Brouin, Warin, Guerin , (c. 822 - 865 / 869 ), known as the Bivin Gorze is an enigmatic character, Count of Ardennes , lay abbot de Gorze and perhaps count of Metz (842-864). He and his descendants formed a family of Frankish nobility called the Bivinides .
Origin
In 1901, René Poupardin said to ignore the parentage, but said he was married to a daughter of Boson the Elder 1 .
Since then, several hypotheses have been put forward to determine its origin.
Abandoned hypothesis
Some have compared the first name of Boson, carried by a son and a grandson of Boson to the family of Boson the Elder , count of Arles , also father of another Boson count in Italy. This proposition is taken up among others by the historian Pierre Riché 2 :
Boson the Elder
Count of Arles
Bivin
abbé de Gorze
Teutberge
x Lothaire II
Boson
count in Italy
Hucbert
Duke of Transjurane
Boson
king in Provence
Richard the Justicier
duke of Burgundy
Raoul
king of France
Hugues the Black
Duke of Burgundy
Boson
count
First hypothesis, now abandoned
Current hypothesis
But this reconstruction is in contradiction with the Annales de Saint-Bertin , which indicate that Queen Teutberge is the maternal aunt of Boson 3 . It turns out that Bivin cannot be Teutberge's brother, but married to one of the latter's sisters.
Two other documents make it possible to envisage another track for the origin of Bivin:
a diploma of the emperor Lothaire I confirms in 842 a donation made by Richard , count and ostiary of Louis the Pious at the request of the testamentary executors of which his brother Bivin.
the historian Richer , speaking of Charles Constantin , count of Vienne and great-grandson of Bivin, said of royal family, but tainted with bastardy at the level of his tritavus , that is to say his ancestor at the sixth generation.
From these data, Christian Settipani proposes the following reconstruction 4 , 5 , 6 :
he considers that the royal family of which Charles Constantin is a member is the Carolingian family, and that the term "family" relates in this context exclusively to the male line.
he considers that, chronologically, the tritavus is a bastard son of Charles Martel .
the only known bastard sons of Charles Martel are Remi , bishop of Rouen, who had no descendants, and Count Jérôme . For Settipani, the Charles Constantin's tritavus is Count Jérôme.
Richard's first names carried by a brother and a son of Bivin, are uncommon in viii th century and the second wife of Count Jerome Gothe is a princess. It approximates the name of Richard with that of Reccared carried by two kings of Wisigoths ( Reccared I st and Reccared II ) and identifies the intermediate generations with the few known Richard.
This reasoning gives the following table:
Rotrude
Charles Martel
mayor of the palace
concubine
Pepin the Short
King of the Franks
Jérôme
count
Erscheswinda
princess gothe
NOT
<=? =>
Richard
count of Rouen
NOT
<=? =>
Richard
count of Amiens
Boson the Elder
Count of Arles
Engeltrude
?
Richilde
x Ecchard
cte de Mâcon
and Autun
Richard
count and ostiary
Bivin
abbé de Gorze
( coast of Metz ?)
Born
Teutberge
x Lothaire II
Boson
count in Italy
Hucbert
Duke of Transjurane
Boson
king in Provence
x Ermengarde
Richard the Justicier
duke of Burgundy
Richilde d'Ardennes
x Charles le Chauve
Louis III the Blind
King of Italy
Raoul
king of France
Hugues the Black
Duke of Burgundy
Boson
count
Charles Constantin
count of Vienna
Hypothesis from Christian Settipani
Biographical elements
According to René Poupardin he was appointed lay abbot of Gorze by Lothaire II , between September 28, 855 and July 8, 856 7 . In 857 , he appeared in two charters with the title of "count and abbot of Gorze" 7 . But having apparently allowed this abbey to collapse and tolerated the relaxation of the discipline, he must yield it in 863 , on the initiative of the archbishop of Metz Advence , to a clerk by the name of Betton 8 . This charter is the last one we have on him.
Some indicate that he is still alive in 865 and according to Bishop Hincmar of Reims , his contemporary, he died in 869 9 . Bivin would therefore have died between 865 and 869.
Progeny
Some historians, such as Pierre Riché 10 , agree to make him the father of:
Richard II of Burgundy 11 dit Richard le Justicier , founder of the first house of the Dukes of Burgundy .
Boson V de Provence , king of Burgondie restored
Richilde d'Ardennes , concubine and second wife ( 870 ) of the king of France Charles II the Bald .
Notes and references
René Poupardin , The kingdom of Provence under the Carolingians (855-933) , painting "La famille de Boson", p. 40 .
Pierre Riché , The Carolingians, a family that made Europe , Paris, Hachette, coll. "Plural",1983( reprint 1997), 490 p. ( ISBN 2-01-278851-3 , online presentation [ archive ] ), Genealogical table XII, the Bosonides .
Charles having certainly learned in his house in Douzy, on October 9, that his wife Ermentrude had died on October 6, in the monastery of Saint-Denis where she was buried, immediately sent Boson, son of the late Count Bouin, in a message to his mother and maternal aunt Teutberge, widow of king Lothaire (Annales de Saint-Bertin, 869 [ archive ] )
Christian Settipani , The Prehistory of the Capetians ( New genealogical history of the august house of France , vol. 1) , Villeneuve-d'Ascq, ed. Patrick van Kerrebrouck,1993, 545 p. ( ISBN 978-2-95015-093-6 ) , p. 363-366.
Bivin's genealogy on the Medieval Lands site [ archive ]
Genealogy of Richard Count of Amiens on the Medieval Lands site [ archive ]
René Poupardin , The kingdom of Provence under the Carolingians (855-933) , p. 43
René Poupardin , The kingdom of Provence under the Carolingians (855-933) , p. 43 , 44
René Poupardin , The kingdom of Provence under the Carolingians (855-933) , p. 44
Pierre Riché, op. cit.
Genealogy of Richard the Justicier on the Medieval Lands site [ archive ]
Bibliography
René Poupardin , The kingdom of Provence under the Carolingians (855-933) , Laffitte reprints, Marseille, 1974, reprint of the Paris edition, 1901.
According to Wikipedia:
Bivin of Gorze (810/830-863) was a Frank founder of the Bivinids family. He was married to a daughter of Boso the Elder, who may have been called Richildis. During his life he functioned as lay abbot of the Gorze Abbey.[1] His offspring includes:
Richildis, who married King Charles the Bald;[1]
Richard the Justiciar, Duke of Burgundy;
Boso, King of Provence;
possibly Bivin, Count of Metz.
Notes
Pierre Riche, The Carolingians: The Family who Forged Europe, transl. Michael Idomir Allen, (University of Pennsylvania Press, 1983), 198.
Sources
Pierre Riché, The Carolingians, a family who forged Europe.
According to the French version of Wikipedia:
Bivin Vienna or Beuves, Buwin, Bouvin, Bouin, Brouin, Warin, Guerin , (c. 822 - 865 / 869 ), known as the Bivin Gorze is an enigmatic character, Count of Ardennes , lay abbot de Gorze and perhaps count of Metz (842-864). He and his descendants formed a family of Frankish nobility called the Bivinides .
Origin
In 1901, René Poupardin said to ignore the parentage, but said he was married to a daughter of Boson the Elder 1 .
Since then, several hypotheses have been put forward to determine its origin.
Abandoned hypothesis
Some have compared the first name of Boson, carried by a son and a grandson of Boson to the family of Boson the Elder , count of Arles , also father of another Boson count in Italy. This proposition is taken up among others by the historian Pierre Riché 2 :
Boson the Elder
Count of Arles
Bivin
abbé de Gorze
Teutberge
x Lothaire II
Boson
count in Italy
Hucbert
Duke of Transjurane
Boson
king in Provence
Richard the Justicier
duke of Burgundy
Raoul
king of France
Hugues the Black
Duke of Burgundy
Boson
count
First hypothesis, now abandoned
Current hypothesis
But this reconstruction is in contradiction with the Annales de Saint-Bertin , which indicate that Queen Teutberge is the maternal aunt of Boson 3 . It turns out that Bivin cannot be Teutberge's brother, but married to one of the latter's sisters.
Two other documents make it possible to envisage another track for the origin of Bivin:
a diploma of the emperor Lothaire I confirms in 842 a donation made by Richard , count and ostiary of Louis the Pious at the request of the testamentary executors of which his brother Bivin.
the historian Richer , speaking of Charles Constantin , count of Vienne and great-grandson of Bivin, said of royal family, but tainted with bastardy at the level of his tritavus , that is to say his ancestor at the sixth generation.
From these data, Christian Settipani proposes the following reconstruction 4 , 5 , 6 :
he considers that the royal family of which Charles Constantin is a member is the Carolingian family, and that the term "family" relates in this context exclusively to the male line.
he considers that, chronologically, the tritavus is a bastard son of Charles Martel .
the only known bastard sons of Charles Martel are Remi , bishop of Rouen, who had no descendants, and Count Jérôme . For Settipani, the Charles Constantin's tritavus is Count Jérôme.
Richard's first names carried by a brother and a son of Bivin, are uncommon in viii th century and the second wife of Count Jerome Gothe is a princess. It approximates the name of Richard with that of Reccared carried by two kings of Wisigoths ( Reccared I st and Reccared II ) and identifies the intermediate generations with the few known Richard.
This reasoning gives the following table:
Rotrude
Charles Martel
mayor of the palace
concubine
Pepin the Short
King of the Franks
Jérôme
count
Erscheswinda
princess gothe
NOT
<=? =>
Richard
count of Rouen
NOT
<=? =>
Richard
count of Amiens
Boson the Elder
Count of Arles
Engeltrude
?
Richilde
x Ecchard
cte de Mâcon
and Autun
Richard
count and ostiary
Bivin
abbé de Gorze
( coast of Metz ?)
Born
Teutberge
x Lothaire II
Boson
count in Italy
Hucbert
Duke of Transjurane
Boson
king in Provence
x Ermengarde
Richard the Justicier
duke of Burgundy
Richilde d'Ardennes
x Charles le Chauve
Louis III the Blind
King of Italy
Raoul
king of France
Hugues the Black
Duke of Burgundy
Boson
count
Charles Constantin
count of Vienna
Hypothesis from Christian Settipani
Biographical elements
According to René Poupardin he was appointed lay abbot of Gorze by Lothaire II , between September 28, 855 and July 8, 856 7 . In 857 , he appeared in two charters with the title of "count and abbot of Gorze" 7 . But having apparently allowed this abbey to collapse and tolerated the relaxation of the discipline, he must yield it in 863 , on the initiative of the archbishop of Metz Advence , to a clerk by the name of Betton 8 . This charter is the last one we have on him.
Some indicate that he is still alive in 865 and according to Bishop Hincmar of Reims , his contemporary, he died in 869 9 . Bivin would therefore have died between 865 and 869.
Progeny
Some historians, such as Pierre Riché 10 , agree to make him the father of:
Richard II of Burgundy 11 dit Richard le Justicier , founder of the first house of the Dukes of Burgundy .
Boson V de Provence , king of Burgondie restored
Richilde d'Ardennes , concubine and second wife ( 870 ) of the king of France Charles II the Bald .
Notes and references
René Poupardin , The kingdom of Provence under the Carolingians (855-933) , painting "La famille de Boson", p. 40 .
Pierre Riché , The Carolingians, a family that made Europe , Paris, Hachette, coll. "Plural",1983( reprint 1997), 490 p. ( ISBN 2-01-278851-3 , online presentation [ archive ] ), Genealogical table XII, the Bosonides .
Charles having certainly learned in his house in Douzy, on October 9, that his wife Ermentrude had died on October 6, in the monastery of Saint-Denis where she was buried, immediately sent Boson, son of the late Count Bouin, in a message to his mother and maternal aunt Teutberge, widow of king Lothaire (Annales de Saint-Bertin, 869 [ archive ] )
Christian Settipani , The Prehistory of the Capetians ( New genealogical history of the august house of France , vol. 1) , Villeneuve-d'Ascq, ed. Patrick van Kerrebrouck,1993, 545 p. ( ISBN 978-2-95015-093-6 ) , p. 363-366.
Bivin's genealogy on the Medieval Lands site [ archive ]
Genealogy of Richard Count of Amiens on the Medieval Lands site [ archive ]
René Poupardin , The kingdom of Provence under the Carolingians (855-933) , p. 43
René Poupardin , The kingdom of Provence under the Carolingians (855-933) , p. 43 , 44
René Poupardin , The kingdom of Provence under the Carolingians (855-933) , p. 44
Pierre Riché, op. cit.
Genealogy of Richard the Justicier on the Medieval Lands site [ archive ]
Bibliography
René Poupardin , The kingdom of Provence under the Carolingians (855-933) , Laffitte reprints, Marseille, 1974, reprint of the Paris edition, 1901.
Pierre Riché , The Carolingians, a family that made Europe , Hachette Littérature (1997 edition) - ( ISBN 2012788513 ) .
-- MERGED NOTE ------------
According to Wikipedia:
Bivin of Gorze (810/830-863) was a Frank founder of the Bivinids family. He was married to a daughter of Boso the Elder, who may have been called Richildis. During his life he functioned as lay abbot of the Gorze Abbey.[1] His offspring includes:
Richildis, who married King Charles the Bald;[1]
Richard the Justiciar, Duke of Burgundy;
Boso, King of Provence;
possibly Bivin, Count of Metz.
Notes
Pierre Riche, The Carolingians: The Family who Forged Europe, transl. Michael Idomir Allen, (University of Pennsylvania Press, 1983), 198.
Sources
Pierre Riché, The Carolingians, a family who forged Europe.
According to the French version of Wikipedia:
Bivin Vienna or Beuves, Buwin, Bouvin, Bouin, Brouin, Warin, Guerin , (c. 822 - 865 / 869 ), known as the Bivin Gorze is an enigmatic character, Count of Ardennes , lay abbot de Gorze and perhaps count of Metz (842-864). He and his descendants formed a family of Frankish nobility called the Bivinides .
Origin
In 1901, René Poupardin said to ignore the parentage, but said he was married to a daughter of Boson the Elder 1 .
Since then, several hypotheses have been put forward to determine its origin.
Abandoned hypothesis
Some have compared the first name of Boson, carried by a son and a grandson of Boson to the family of Boson the Elder , count of Arles , also father of another Boson count in Italy. This proposition is taken up among others by the historian Pierre Riché 2 :
Boson the Elder
Count of Arles
Bivin
abbé de Gorze
Teutberge
x Lothaire II
Boson
count in Italy
Hucbert
Duke of Transjurane
Boson
king in Provence
Richard the Justicier
duke of Burgundy
Raoul
king of France
Hugues the Black
Duke of Burgundy
Boson
count
First hypothesis, now abandoned
Current hypothesis
But this reconstruction is in contradiction with the Annales de Saint-Bertin , which indicate that Queen Teutberge is the maternal aunt of Boson 3 . It turns out that Bivin cannot be Teutberge's brother, but married to one of the latter's sisters.
Two other documents make it possible to envisage another track for the origin of Bivin:
a diploma of the emperor Lothaire I confirms in 842 a donation made by Richard , count and ostiary of Louis the Pious at the request of the testamentary executors of which his brother Bivin.
the historian Richer , speaking of Charles Constantin , count of Vienne and great-grandson of Bivin, said of royal family, but tainted with bastardy at the level of his tritavus , that is to say his ancestor at the sixth generation.
From these data, Christian Settipani proposes the following reconstruction 4 , 5 , 6 :
he considers that the royal family of which Charles Constantin is a member is the Carolingian family, and that the term "family" relates in this context exclusively to the male line.
he considers that, chronologically, the tritavus is a bastard son of Charles Martel .
the only known bastard sons of Charles Martel are Remi , bishop of Rouen, who had no descendants, and Count Jérôme . For Settipani, the Charles Constantin's tritavus is Count Jérôme.
Richard's first names carried by a brother and a son of Bivin, are uncommon in viii th century and the second wife of Count Jerome Gothe is a princess. It approximates the name of Richard with that of Reccared carried by two kings of Wisigoths ( Reccared I st and Reccared II ) and identifies the intermediate generations with the few known Richard.
This reasoning gives the following table:
Rotrude
Charles Martel
mayor of the palace
concubine
Pepin the Short
King of the Franks
Jérôme
count
Erscheswinda
princess gothe
NOT
<=? =>
Richard
count of Rouen
NOT
<=? =>
Richard
count of Amiens
Boson the Elder
Count of Arles
Engeltrude
?
Richilde
x Ecchard
cte de Mâcon
and Autun
Richard
count and ostiary
Bivin
abbé de Gorze
( coast of Metz ?)
Born
Teutberge
x Lothaire II
Boson
count in Italy
Hucbert
Duke of Transjurane
Boson
king in Provence
x Ermengarde
Richard the Justicier
duke of Burgundy
Richilde d'Ardennes
x Charles le Chauve
Louis III the Blind
King of Italy
Raoul
king of France
Hugues the Black
Duke of Burgundy
Boson
count
Charles Constantin
count of Vienna
Hypothesis from Christian Settipani
Biographical elements
According to René Poupardin he was appointed lay abbot of Gorze by Lothaire II , between September 28, 855 and July 8, 856 7 . In 857 , he appeared in two charters with the title of "count and abbot of Gorze" 7 . But having apparently allowed this abbey to collapse and tolerated the relaxation of the discipline, he must yield it in 863 , on the initiative of the archbishop of Metz Advence , to a clerk by the name of Betton 8 . This charter is the last one we have on him.
Some indicate that he is still alive in 865 and according to Bishop Hincmar of Reims , his contemporary, he died in 869 9 . Bivin would therefore have died between 865 and 869.
Progeny
Some historians, such as Pierre Riché 10 , agree to make him the father of:
Richard II of Burgundy 11 dit Richard le Justicier , founder of the first house of the Dukes of Burgundy .
Boson V de Provence , king of Burgondie restored
Richilde d'Ardennes , concubine and second wife ( 870 ) of the king of France Charles II the Bald .
Notes and references
René Poupardin , The kingdom of Provence under the Carolingians (855-933) , painting "La famille de Boson", p. 40 .
Pierre Riché , The Carolingians, a family that made Europe , Paris, Hachette, coll. "Plural",1983( reprint 1997), 490 p. ( ISBN 2-01-278851-3 , online presentation [ archive ] ), Genealogical table XII, the Bosonides .
Charles having certainly learned in his house in Douzy, on October 9, that his wife Ermentrude had died on October 6, in the monastery of Saint-Denis where she was buried, immediately sent Boson, son of the late Count Bouin, in a message to his mother and maternal aunt Teutberge, widow of king Lothaire (Annales de Saint-Bertin, 869 [ archive ] )
Christian Settipani , The Prehistory of the Capetians ( New genealogical history of the august house of France , vol. 1) , Villeneuve-d'Ascq, ed. Patrick van Kerrebrouck,1993, 545 p. ( ISBN 978-2-95015-093-6 ) , p. 363-366.
Bivin's genealogy on the Medieval Lands site [ archive ]
Genealogy of Richard Count of Amiens on the Medieval Lands site [ archive ]
René Poupardin , The kingdom of Provence under the Carolingians (855-933) , p. 43
René Poupardin , The kingdom of Provence under the Carolingians (855-933) , p. 43 , 44
René Poupardin , The kingdom of Provence under the Carolingians (855-933) , p. 44
Pierre Riché, op. cit.
Genealogy of Richard the Justicier on the Medieval Lands site [ archive ]
Bibliography
René Poupardin , The kingdom of Provence under the Carolingians (855-933) , Laffitte reprints, Marseille, 1974, reprint of the Paris edition, 1901.
According to Wikipedia:
Bivin of Gorze (810/830-863) was a Frank founder of the Bivinids family. He was married to a daughter of Boso the Elder, who may have been called Richildis. During his life he functioned as lay abbot of the Gorze Abbey.[1] His offspring includes:
Richildis, who married King Charles the Bald;[1]
Richard the Justiciar, Duke of Burgundy;
Boso, King of Provence;
possibly Bivin, Count of Metz.
Notes
Pierre Riche, The Carolingians: The Family who Forged Europe, transl. Michael Idomir Allen, (University of Pennsylvania Press, 1983), 198.
Sources
Pierre Riché, The Carolingians, a family who forged Europe.
According to the French version of Wikipedia:
Bivin Vienna or Beuves, Buwin, Bouvin, Bouin, Brouin, Warin, Guerin , (c. 822 - 865 / 869 ), known as the Bivin Gorze is an enigmatic character, Count of Ardennes , lay abbot de Gorze and perhaps count of Metz (842-864). He and his descendants formed a family of Frankish nobility called the Bivinides .
Origin
In 1901, René Poupardin said to ignore the parentage, but said he was married to a daughter of Boson the Elder 1 .
Since then, several hypotheses have been put forward to determine its origin.
Abandoned hypothesis
Some have compared the first name of Boson, carried by a son and a grandson of Boson to the family of Boson the Elder , count of Arles , also father of another Boson count in Italy. This proposition is taken up among others by the historian Pierre Riché 2 :
Boson the Elder
Count of Arles
Bivin
abbé de Gorze
Teutberge
x Lothaire II
Boson
count in Italy
Hucbert
Duke of Transjurane
Boson
king in Provence
Richard the Justicier
duke of Burgundy
Raoul
king of France
Hugues the Black
Duke of Burgundy
Boson
count
First hypothesis, now abandoned
Current hypothesis
But this reconstruction is in contradiction with the Annales de Saint-Bertin , which indicate that Queen Teutberge is the maternal aunt of Boson 3 . It turns out that Bivin cannot be Teutberge's brother, but married to one of the latter's sisters.
Two other documents make it possible to envisage another track for the origin of Bivin:
a diploma of the emperor Lothaire I confirms in 842 a donation made by Richard , count and ostiary of Louis the Pious at the request of the testamentary executors of which his brother Bivin.
the historian Richer , speaking of Charles Constantin , count of Vienne and great-grandson of Bivin, said of royal family, but tainted with bastardy at the level of his tritavus , that is to say his ancestor at the sixth generation.
From these data, Christian Settipani proposes the following reconstruction 4 , 5 , 6 :
he considers that the royal family of which Charles Constantin is a member is the Carolingian family, and that the term "family" relates in this context exclusively to the male line.
he considers that, chronologically, the tritavus is a bastard son of Charles Martel .
the only known bastard sons of Charles Martel are Remi , bishop of Rouen, who had no descendants, and Count Jérôme . For Settipani, the Charles Constantin's tritavus is Count Jérôme.
Richard's first names carried by a brother and a son of Bivin, are uncommon in viii th century and the second wife of Count Jerome Gothe is a princess. It approximates the name of Richard with that of Reccared carried by two kings of Wisigoths ( Reccared I st and Reccared II ) and identifies the intermediate generations with the few known Richard.
This reasoning gives the following table:
Rotrude
Charles Martel
mayor of the palace
concubine
Pepin the Short
King of the Franks
Jérôme
count
Erscheswinda
princess gothe
NOT
<=? =>
Richard
count of Rouen
NOT
<=? =>
Richard
count of Amiens
Boson the Elder
Count of Arles
Engeltrude
?
Richilde
x Ecchard
cte de Mâcon
and Autun
Richard
count and ostiary
Bivin
abbé de Gorze
( coast of Metz ?)
Born
Teutberge
x Lothaire II
Boson
count in Italy
Hucbert
Duke of Transjurane
Boson
king in Provence
x Ermengarde
Richard the Justicier
duke of Burgundy
Richilde d'Ardennes
x Charles le Chauve
Louis III the Blind
King of Italy
Raoul
king of France
Hugues the Black
Duke of Burgundy
Boson
count
Charles Constantin
count of Vienna
Hypothesis from Christian Settipani
Biographical elements
According to René Poupardin he was appointed lay abbot of Gorze by Lothaire II , between September 28, 855 and July 8, 856 7 . In 857 , he appeared in two charters with the title of "count and abbot of Gorze" 7 . But having apparently allowed this abbey to collapse and tolerated the relaxation of the discipline, he must yield it in 863 , on the initiative of the archbishop of Metz Advence , to a clerk by the name of Betton 8 . This charter is the last one we have on him.
Some indicate that he is still alive in 865 and according to Bishop Hincmar of Reims , his contemporary, he died in 869 9 . Bivin would therefore have died between 865 and 869.
Progeny
Some historians, such as Pierre Riché 10 , agree to make him the father of:
Richard II of Burgundy 11 dit Richard le Justicier , founder of the first house of the Dukes of Burgundy .
Boson V de Provence , king of Burgondie restored
Richilde d'Ardennes , concubine and second wife ( 870 ) of the king of France Charles II the Bald .
Notes and references
René Poupardin , The kingdom of Provence under the Carolingians (855-933) , painting "La famille de Boson", p. 40 .
Pierre Riché , The Carolingians, a family that made Europe , Paris, Hachette, coll. "Plural",1983( reprint 1997), 490 p. ( ISBN 2-01-278851-3 , online presentation [ archive ] ), Genealogical table XII, the Bosonides .
Charles having certainly learned in his house in Douzy, on October 9, that his wife Ermentrude had died on October 6, in the monastery of Saint-Denis where she was buried, immediately sent Boson, son of the late Count Bouin, in a message to his mother and maternal aunt Teutberge, widow of king Lothaire (Annales de Saint-Bertin, 869 [ archive ] )
Christian Settipani , The Prehistory of the Capetians ( New genealogical history of the august house of France , vol. 1) , Villeneuve-d'Ascq, ed. Patrick van Kerrebrouck,1993, 545 p. ( ISBN 978-2-95015-093-6 ) , p. 363-366.
Bivin's genealogy on the Medieval Lands site [ archive ]
Genealogy of Richard Count of Amiens on the Medieval Lands site [ archive ]
René Poupardin , The kingdom of Provence under the Carolingians (855-933) , p. 43
René Poupardin , The kingdom of Provence under the Carolingians (855-933) , p. 43 , 44
René Poupardin , The kingdom of Provence under the Carolingians (855-933) , p. 44
Pierre Riché, op. cit.
Genealogy of Richard the Justicier on the Medieval Lands site [ archive ]
Bibliography
René Poupardin , The kingdom of Provence under the Carolingians (855-933) , Laffitte reprints, Marseille, 1974, reprint of the Paris edition, 1901.
Pierre Riché , The Carolingians, a family that made Europe , Hachette Littérature (1997 edition) - ( ISBN 2012788513 ) .
-- MERGED NOTE ------------
According to Wikipedia:
Bivin of Gorze (810/830-863) was a Frank founder of the Bivinids family. He was married to a daughter of Boso the Elder, who may have been called Richildis. During his life he functioned as lay abbot of the Gorze Abbey.[1] His offspring includes:
Richildis, who married King Charles the Bald;[1]
Richard the Justiciar, Duke of Burgundy;
Boso, King of Provence;
possibly Bivin, Count of Metz.
Notes
Pierre Riche, The Carolingians: The Family who Forged Europe, transl. Michael Idomir Allen, (University of Pennsylvania Press, 1983), 198.
Sources
Pierre Riché, The Carolingians, a family who forged Europe.
According to the French version of Wikipedia:
Bivin Vienna or Beuves, Buwin, Bouvin, Bouin, Brouin, Warin, Guerin , (c. 822 - 865 / 869 ), known as the Bivin Gorze is an enigmatic character, Count of Ardennes , lay abbot de Gorze and perhaps count of Metz (842-864). He and his descendants formed a family of Frankish nobility called the Bivinides .
Origin
In 1901, René Poupardin said to ignore the parentage, but said he was married to a daughter of Boson the Elder 1 .
Since then, several hypotheses have been put forward to determine its origin.
Abandoned hypothesis
Some have compared the first name of Boson, carried by a son and a grandson of Boson to the family of Boson the Elder , count of Arles , also father of another Boson count in Italy. This proposition is taken up among others by the historian Pierre Riché 2 :
Boson the Elder
Count of Arles
Bivin
abbé de Gorze
Teutberge
x Lothaire II
Boson
count in Italy
Hucbert
Duke of Transjurane
Boson
king in Provence
Richard the Justicier
duke of Burgundy
Raoul
king of France
Hugues the Black
Duke of Burgundy
Boson
count
First hypothesis, now abandoned
Current hypothesis
But this reconstruction is in contradiction with the Annales de Saint-Bertin , which indicate that Queen Teutberge is the maternal aunt of Boson 3 . It turns out that Bivin cannot be Teutberge's brother, but married to one of the latter's sisters.
Two other documents make it possible to envisage another track for the origin of Bivin:
a diploma of the emperor Lothaire I confirms in 842 a donation made by Richard , count and ostiary of Louis the Pious at the request of the testamentary executors of which his brother Bivin.
the historian Richer , speaking of Charles Constantin , count of Vienne and great-grandson of Bivin, said of royal family, but tainted with bastardy at the level of his tritavus , that is to say his ancestor at the sixth generation.
From these data, Christian Settipani proposes the following reconstruction 4 , 5 , 6 :
he considers that the royal family of which Charles Constantin is a member is the Carolingian family, and that the term "family" relates in this context exclusively to the male line.
he considers that, chronologically, the tritavus is a bastard son of Charles Martel .
the only known bastard sons of Charles Martel are Remi , bishop of Rouen, who had no descendants, and Count Jérôme . For Settipani, the Charles Constantin's tritavus is Count Jérôme.
Richard's first names carried by a brother and a son of Bivin, are uncommon in viii th century and the second wife of Count Jerome Gothe is a princess. It approximates the name of Richard with that of Reccared carried by two kings of Wisigoths ( Reccared I st and Reccared II ) and identifies the intermediate generations with the few known Richard.
This reasoning gives the following table:
Rotrude
Charles Martel
mayor of the palace
concubine
Pepin the Short
King of the Franks
Jérôme
count
Erscheswinda
princess gothe
NOT
<=? =>
Richard
count of Rouen
NOT
<=? =>
Richard
count of Amiens
Boson the Elder
Count of Arles
Engeltrude
?
Richilde
x Ecchard
cte de Mâcon
and Autun
Richard
count and ostiary
Bivin
abbé de Gorze
( coast of Metz ?)
Born
Teutberge
x Lothaire II
Boson
count in Italy
Hucbert
Duke of Transjurane
Boson
king in Provence
x Ermengarde
Richard the Justicier
duke of Burgundy
Richilde d'Ardennes
x Charles le Chauve
Louis III the Blind
King of Italy
Raoul
king of France
Hugues the Black
Duke of Burgundy
Boson
count
Charles Constantin
count of Vienna
Hypothesis from Christian Settipani
Biographical elements
According to René Poupardin he was appointed lay abbot of Gorze by Lothaire II , between September 28, 855 and July 8, 856 7 . In 857 , he appeared in two charters with the title of "count and abbot of Gorze" 7 . But having apparently allowed this abbey to collapse and tolerated the relaxation of the discipline, he must yield it in 863 , on the initiative of the archbishop of Metz Advence , to a clerk by the name of Betton 8 . This charter is the last one we have on him.
Some indicate that he is still alive in 865 and according to Bishop Hincmar of Reims , his contemporary, he died in 869 9 . Bivin would therefore have died between 865 and 869.
Progeny
Some historians, such as Pierre Riché 10 , agree to make him the father of:
Richard II of Burgundy 11 dit Richard le Justicier , founder of the first house of the Dukes of Burgundy .
Boson V de Provence , king of Burgondie restored
Richilde d'Ardennes , concubine and second wife ( 870 ) of the king of France Charles II the Bald .
Notes and references
René Poupardin , The kingdom of Provence under the Carolingians (855-933) , painting "La famille de Boson", p. 40 .
Pierre Riché , The Carolingians, a family that made Europe , Paris, Hachette, coll. "Plural",1983( reprint 1997), 490 p. ( ISBN 2-01-278851-3 , online presentation [ archive ] ), Genealogical table XII, the Bosonides .
Charles having certainly learned in his house in Douzy, on October 9, that his wife Ermentrude had died on October 6, in the monastery of Saint-Denis where she was buried, immediately sent Boson, son of the late Count Bouin, in a message to his mother and maternal aunt Teutberge, widow of king Lothaire (Annales de Saint-Bertin, 869 [ archive ] )
Christian Settipani , The Prehistory of the Capetians ( New genealogical history of the august house of France , vol. 1) , Villeneuve-d'Ascq, ed. Patrick van Kerrebrouck,1993, 545 p. ( ISBN 978-2-95015-093-6 ) , p. 363-366.
Bivin's genealogy on the Medieval Lands site [ archive ]
Genealogy of Richard Count of Amiens on the Medieval Lands site [ archive ]
René Poupardin , The kingdom of Provence under the Carolingians (855-933) , p. 43
René Poupardin , The kingdom of Provence under the Carolingians (855-933) , p. 43 , 44
René Poupardin , The kingdom of Provence under the Carolingians (855-933) , p. 44
Pierre Riché, op. cit.
Genealogy of Richard the Justicier on the Medieval Lands site [ archive ]
Bibliography
René Poupardin , The kingdom of Provence under the Carolingians (855-933) , Laffitte reprints, Marseille, 1974, reprint of the Paris edition, 1901.
According to Wikipedia:
Bivin of Gorze (810/830-863) was a Frank founder of the Bivinids family. He was married to a daughter of Boso the Elder, who may have been called Richildis. During his life he functioned as lay abbot of the Gorze Abbey.[1] His offspring includes:
Richildis, who married King Charles the Bald;[1]
Richard the Justiciar, Duke of Burgundy;
Boso, King of Provence;
possibly Bivin, Count of Metz.
Notes
Pierre Riche, The Carolingians: The Family who Forged Europe, transl. Michael Idomir Allen, (University of Pennsylvania Press, 1983), 198.
Sources
Pierre Riché, The Carolingians, a family who forged Europe.
According to the French version of Wikipedia:
Bivin Vienna or Beuves, Buwin, Bouvin, Bouin, Brouin, Warin, Guerin , (c. 822 - 865 / 869 ), known as the Bivin Gorze is an enigmatic character, Count of Ardennes , lay abbot de Gorze and perhaps count of Metz (842-864). He and his descendants formed a family of Frankish nobility called the Bivinides .
Origin
In 1901, René Poupardin said to ignore the parentage, but said he was married to a daughter of Boson the Elder 1 .
Since then, several hypotheses have been put forward to determine its origin.
Abandoned hypothesis
Some have compared the first name of Boson, carried by a son and a grandson of Boson to the family of Boson the Elder , count of Arles , also father of another Boson count in Italy. This proposition is taken up among others by the historian Pierre Riché 2 :
Boson the Elder
Count of Arles
Bivin
abbé de Gorze
Teutberge
x Lothaire II
Boson
count in Italy
Hucbert
Duke of Transjurane
Boson
king in Provence
Richard the Justicier
duke of Burgundy
Raoul
king of France
Hugues the Black
Duke of Burgundy
Boson
count
First hypothesis, now abandoned
Current hypothesis
But this reconstruction is in contradiction with the Annales de Saint-Bertin , which indicate that Queen Teutberge is the maternal aunt of Boson 3 . It turns out that Bivin cannot be Teutberge's brother, but married to one of the latter's sisters.
Two other documents make it possible to envisage another track for the origin of Bivin:
a diploma of the emperor Lothaire I confirms in 842 a donation made by Richard , count and ostiary of Louis the Pious at the request of the testamentary executors of which his brother Bivin.
the historian Richer , speaking of Charles Constantin , count of Vienne and great-grandson of Bivin, said of royal family, but tainted with bastardy at the level of his tritavus , that is to say his ancestor at the sixth generation.
From these data, Christian Settipani proposes the following reconstruction 4 , 5 , 6 :
he considers that the royal family of which Charles Constantin is a member is the Carolingian family, and that the term "family" relates in this context exclusively to the male line.
he considers that, chronologically, the tritavus is a bastard son of Charles Martel .
the only known bastard sons of Charles Martel are Remi , bishop of Rouen, who had no descendants, and Count Jérôme . For Settipani, the Charles Constantin's tritavus is Count Jérôme.
Richard's first names carried by a brother and a son of Bivin, are uncommon in viii th century and the second wife of Count Jerome Gothe is a princess. It approximates the name of Richard with that of Reccared carried by two kings of Wisigoths ( Reccared I st and Reccared II ) and identifies the intermediate generations with the few known Richard.
This reasoning gives the following table:
Rotrude
Charles Martel
mayor of the palace
concubine
Pepin the Short
King of the Franks
Jérôme
count
Erscheswinda
princess gothe
NOT
<=? =>
Richard
count of Rouen
NOT
<=? =>
Richard
count of Amiens
Boson the Elder
Count of Arles
Engeltrude
?
Richilde
x Ecchard
cte de Mâcon
and Autun
Richard
count and ostiary
Bivin
abbé de Gorze
( coast of Metz ?)
Born
Teutberge
x Lothaire II
Boson
count in Italy
Hucbert
Duke of Transjurane
Boson
king in Provence
x Ermengarde
Richard the Justicier
duke of Burgundy
Richilde d'Ardennes
x Charles le Chauve
Louis III the Blind
King of Italy
Raoul
king of France
Hugues the Black
Duke of Burgundy
Boson
count
Charles Constantin
count of Vienna
Hypothesis from Christian Settipani
Biographical elements
According to René Poupardin he was appointed lay abbot of Gorze by Lothaire II , between September 28, 855 and July 8, 856 7 . In 857 , he appeared in two charters with the title of "count and abbot of Gorze" 7 . But having apparently allowed this abbey to collapse and tolerated the relaxation of the discipline, he must yield it in 863 , on the initiative of the archbishop of Metz Advence , to a clerk by the name of Betton 8 . This charter is the last one we have on him.
Some indicate that he is still alive in 865 and according to Bishop Hincmar of Reims , his contemporary, he died in 869 9 . Bivin would therefore have died between 865 and 869.
Progeny
Some historians, such as Pierre Riché 10 , agree to make him the father of:
Richard II of Burgundy 11 dit Richard le Justicier , founder of the first house of the Dukes of Burgundy .
Boson V de Provence , king of Burgondie restored
Richilde d'Ardennes , concubine and second wife ( 870 ) of the king of France Charles II the Bald .
Notes and references
René Poupardin , The kingdom of Provence under the Carolingians (855-933) , painting "La famille de Boson", p. 40 .
Pierre Riché , The Carolingians, a family that made Europe , Paris, Hachette, coll. "Plural",1983( reprint 1997), 490 p. ( ISBN 2-01-278851-3 , online presentation [ archive ] ), Genealogical table XII, the Bosonides .
Charles having certainly learned in his house in Douzy, on October 9, that his wife Ermentrude had died on October 6, in the monastery of Saint-Denis where she was buried, immediately sent Boson, son of the late Count Bouin, in a message to his mother and maternal aunt Teutberge, widow of king Lothaire (Annales de Saint-Bertin, 869 [ archive ] )
Christian Settipani , The Prehistory of the Capetians ( New genealogical history of the august house of France , vol. 1) , Villeneuve-d'Ascq, ed. Patrick van Kerrebrouck,1993, 545 p. ( ISBN 978-2-95015-093-6 ) , p. 363-366.
Bivin's genealogy on the Medieval Lands site [ archive ]
Genealogy of Richard Count of Amiens on the Medieval Lands site [ archive ]
René Poupardin , The kingdom of Provence under the Carolingians (855-933) , p. 43
René Poupardin , The kingdom of Provence under the Carolingians (855-933) , p. 43 , 44
René Poupardin , The kingdom of Provence under the Carolingians (855-933) , p. 44
Pierre Riché, op. cit.
Genealogy of Richard the Justicier on the Medieval Lands site [ archive ]
Bibliography
René Poupardin , The kingdom of Provence under the Carolingians (855-933) , Laffitte reprints, Marseille, 1974, reprint of the Paris edition, 1901.
Pierre Riché , The Carolingians, a family that made Europe , Hachette Littérature (1997 edition) - ( ISBN 2012788513 ) .
Bivin of Gorze (810/830-863) was a Frank founder of the Bivinids family. He was married to a daughter of Boso the Elder, who may have been called Richildis. During his life he functioned as lay abbot of the Gorze Abbey.[1] His offspring includes:
Richildis, who married King Charles the Bald;[1]
Richard the Justiciar, Duke of Burgundy;
Boso, King of Provence;
possibly Bivin, Count of Metz.
Notes
Pierre Riche, The Carolingians: The Family who Forged Europe, transl. Michael Idomir Allen, (University of Pennsylvania Press, 1983), 198.
Sources
Pierre Riché, The Carolingians, a family who forged Europe.
According to the French version of Wikipedia:
Bivin Vienna or Beuves, Buwin, Bouvin, Bouin, Brouin, Warin, Guerin , (c. 822 - 865 / 869 ), known as the Bivin Gorze is an enigmatic character, Count of Ardennes , lay abbot de Gorze and perhaps count of Metz (842-864). He and his descendants formed a family of Frankish nobility called the Bivinides .
Origin
In 1901, René Poupardin said to ignore the parentage, but said he was married to a daughter of Boson the Elder 1 .
Since then, several hypotheses have been put forward to determine its origin.
Abandoned hypothesis
Some have compared the first name of Boson, carried by a son and a grandson of Boson to the family of Boson the Elder , count of Arles , also father of another Boson count in Italy. This proposition is taken up among others by the historian Pierre Riché 2 :
Boson the Elder
Count of Arles
Bivin
abbé de Gorze
Teutberge
x Lothaire II
Boson
count in Italy
Hucbert
Duke of Transjurane
Boson
king in Provence
Richard the Justicier
duke of Burgundy
Raoul
king of France
Hugues the Black
Duke of Burgundy
Boson
count
First hypothesis, now abandoned
Current hypothesis
But this reconstruction is in contradiction with the Annales de Saint-Bertin , which indicate that Queen Teutberge is the maternal aunt of Boson 3 . It turns out that Bivin cannot be Teutberge's brother, but married to one of the latter's sisters.
Two other documents make it possible to envisage another track for the origin of Bivin:
a diploma of the emperor Lothaire I confirms in 842 a donation made by Richard , count and ostiary of Louis the Pious at the request of the testamentary executors of which his brother Bivin.
the historian Richer , speaking of Charles Constantin , count of Vienne and great-grandson of Bivin, said of royal family, but tainted with bastardy at the level of his tritavus , that is to say his ancestor at the sixth generation.
From these data, Christian Settipani proposes the following reconstruction 4 , 5 , 6 :
he considers that the royal family of which Charles Constantin is a member is the Carolingian family, and that the term "family" relates in this context exclusively to the male line.
he considers that, chronologically, the tritavus is a bastard son of Charles Martel .
the only known bastard sons of Charles Martel are Remi , bishop of Rouen, who had no descendants, and Count Jérôme . For Settipani, the Charles Constantin's tritavus is Count Jérôme.
Richard's first names carried by a brother and a son of Bivin, are uncommon in viii th century and the second wife of Count Jerome Gothe is a princess. It approximates the name of Richard with that of Reccared carried by two kings of Wisigoths ( Reccared I st and Reccared II ) and identifies the intermediate generations with the few known Richard.
This reasoning gives the following table:
Rotrude
Charles Martel
mayor of the palace
concubine
Pepin the Short
King of the Franks
Jérôme
count
Erscheswinda
princess gothe
NOT
<=? =>
Richard
count of Rouen
NOT
<=? =>
Richard
count of Amiens
Boson the Elder
Count of Arles
Engeltrude
?
Richilde
x Ecchard
cte de Mâcon
and Autun
Richard
count and ostiary
Bivin
abbé de Gorze
( coast of Metz ?)
Born
Teutberge
x Lothaire II
Boson
count in Italy
Hucbert
Duke of Transjurane
Boson
king in Provence
x Ermengarde
Richard the Justicier
duke of Burgundy
Richilde d'Ardennes
x Charles le Chauve
Louis III the Blind
King of Italy
Raoul
king of France
Hugues the Black
Duke of Burgundy
Boson
count
Charles Constantin
count of Vienna
Hypothesis from Christian Settipani
Biographical elements
According to René Poupardin he was appointed lay abbot of Gorze by Lothaire II , between September 28, 855 and July 8, 856 7 . In 857 , he appeared in two charters with the title of "count and abbot of Gorze" 7 . But having apparently allowed this abbey to collapse and tolerated the relaxation of the discipline, he must yield it in 863 , on the initiative of the archbishop of Metz Advence , to a clerk by the name of Betton 8 . This charter is the last one we have on him.
Some indicate that he is still alive in 865 and according to Bishop Hincmar of Reims , his contemporary, he died in 869 9 . Bivin would therefore have died between 865 and 869.
Progeny
Some historians, such as Pierre Riché 10 , agree to make him the father of:
Richard II of Burgundy 11 dit Richard le Justicier , founder of the first house of the Dukes of Burgundy .
Boson V de Provence , king of Burgondie restored
Richilde d'Ardennes , concubine and second wife ( 870 ) of the king of France Charles II the Bald .
Notes and references
René Poupardin , The kingdom of Provence under the Carolingians (855-933) , painting "La famille de Boson", p. 40 .
Pierre Riché , The Carolingians, a family that made Europe , Paris, Hachette, coll. "Plural",1983( reprint 1997), 490 p. ( ISBN 2-01-278851-3 , online presentation [ archive ] ), Genealogical table XII, the Bosonides .
Charles having certainly learned in his house in Douzy, on October 9, that his wife Ermentrude had died on October 6, in the monastery of Saint-Denis where she was buried, immediately sent Boson, son of the late Count Bouin, in a message to his mother and maternal aunt Teutberge, widow of king Lothaire (Annales de Saint-Bertin, 869 [ archive ] )
Christian Settipani , The Prehistory of the Capetians ( New genealogical history of the august house of France , vol. 1) , Villeneuve-d'Ascq, ed. Patrick van Kerrebrouck,1993, 545 p. ( ISBN 978-2-95015-093-6 ) , p. 363-366.
Bivin's genealogy on the Medieval Lands site [ archive ]
Genealogy of Richard Count of Amiens on the Medieval Lands site [ archive ]
René Poupardin , The kingdom of Provence under the Carolingians (855-933) , p. 43
René Poupardin , The kingdom of Provence under the Carolingians (855-933) , p. 43 , 44
René Poupardin , The kingdom of Provence under the Carolingians (855-933) , p. 44
Pierre Riché, op. cit.
Genealogy of Richard the Justicier on the Medieval Lands site [ archive ]
Bibliography
René Poupardin , The kingdom of Provence under the Carolingians (855-933) , Laffitte reprints, Marseille, 1974, reprint of the Paris edition, 1901.
According to Wikipedia:
Bivin of Gorze (810/830-863) was a Frank founder of the Bivinids family. He was married to a daughter of Boso the Elder, who may have been called Richildis. During his life he functioned as lay abbot of the Gorze Abbey.[1] His offspring includes:
Richildis, who married King Charles the Bald;[1]
Richard the Justiciar, Duke of Burgundy;
Boso, King of Provence;
possibly Bivin, Count of Metz.
Notes
Pierre Riche, The Carolingians: The Family who Forged Europe, transl. Michael Idomir Allen, (University of Pennsylvania Press, 1983), 198.
Sources
Pierre Riché, The Carolingians, a family who forged Europe.
According to the French version of Wikipedia:
Bivin Vienna or Beuves, Buwin, Bouvin, Bouin, Brouin, Warin, Guerin , (c. 822 - 865 / 869 ), known as the Bivin Gorze is an enigmatic character, Count of Ardennes , lay abbot de Gorze and perhaps count of Metz (842-864). He and his descendants formed a family of Frankish nobility called the Bivinides .
Origin
In 1901, René Poupardin said to ignore the parentage, but said he was married to a daughter of Boson the Elder 1 .
Since then, several hypotheses have been put forward to determine its origin.
Abandoned hypothesis
Some have compared the first name of Boson, carried by a son and a grandson of Boson to the family of Boson the Elder , count of Arles , also father of another Boson count in Italy. This proposition is taken up among others by the historian Pierre Riché 2 :
Boson the Elder
Count of Arles
Bivin
abbé de Gorze
Teutberge
x Lothaire II
Boson
count in Italy
Hucbert
Duke of Transjurane
Boson
king in Provence
Richard the Justicier
duke of Burgundy
Raoul
king of France
Hugues the Black
Duke of Burgundy
Boson
count
First hypothesis, now abandoned
Current hypothesis
But this reconstruction is in contradiction with the Annales de Saint-Bertin , which indicate that Queen Teutberge is the maternal aunt of Boson 3 . It turns out that Bivin cannot be Teutberge's brother, but married to one of the latter's sisters.
Two other documents make it possible to envisage another track for the origin of Bivin:
a diploma of the emperor Lothaire I confirms in 842 a donation made by Richard , count and ostiary of Louis the Pious at the request of the testamentary executors of which his brother Bivin.
the historian Richer , speaking of Charles Constantin , count of Vienne and great-grandson of Bivin, said of royal family, but tainted with bastardy at the level of his tritavus , that is to say his ancestor at the sixth generation.
From these data, Christian Settipani proposes the following reconstruction 4 , 5 , 6 :
he considers that the royal family of which Charles Constantin is a member is the Carolingian family, and that the term "family" relates in this context exclusively to the male line.
he considers that, chronologically, the tritavus is a bastard son of Charles Martel .
the only known bastard sons of Charles Martel are Remi , bishop of Rouen, who had no descendants, and Count Jérôme . For Settipani, the Charles Constantin's tritavus is Count Jérôme.
Richard's first names carried by a brother and a son of Bivin, are uncommon in viii th century and the second wife of Count Jerome Gothe is a princess. It approximates the name of Richard with that of Reccared carried by two kings of Wisigoths ( Reccared I st and Reccared II ) and identifies the intermediate generations with the few known Richard.
This reasoning gives the following table:
Rotrude
Charles Martel
mayor of the palace
concubine
Pepin the Short
King of the Franks
Jérôme
count
Erscheswinda
princess gothe
NOT
<=? =>
Richard
count of Rouen
NOT
<=? =>
Richard
count of Amiens
Boson the Elder
Count of Arles
Engeltrude
?
Richilde
x Ecchard
cte de Mâcon
and Autun
Richard
count and ostiary
Bivin
abbé de Gorze
( coast of Metz ?)
Born
Teutberge
x Lothaire II
Boson
count in Italy
Hucbert
Duke of Transjurane
Boson
king in Provence
x Ermengarde
Richard the Justicier
duke of Burgundy
Richilde d'Ardennes
x Charles le Chauve
Louis III the Blind
King of Italy
Raoul
king of France
Hugues the Black
Duke of Burgundy
Boson
count
Charles Constantin
count of Vienna
Hypothesis from Christian Settipani
Biographical elements
According to René Poupardin he was appointed lay abbot of Gorze by Lothaire II , between September 28, 855 and July 8, 856 7 . In 857 , he appeared in two charters with the title of "count and abbot of Gorze" 7 . But having apparently allowed this abbey to collapse and tolerated the relaxation of the discipline, he must yield it in 863 , on the initiative of the archbishop of Metz Advence , to a clerk by the name of Betton 8 . This charter is the last one we have on him.
Some indicate that he is still alive in 865 and according to Bishop Hincmar of Reims , his contemporary, he died in 869 9 . Bivin would therefore have died between 865 and 869.
Progeny
Some historians, such as Pierre Riché 10 , agree to make him the father of:
Richard II of Burgundy 11 dit Richard le Justicier , founder of the first house of the Dukes of Burgundy .
Boson V de Provence , king of Burgondie restored
Richilde d'Ardennes , concubine and second wife ( 870 ) of the king of France Charles II the Bald .
Notes and references
René Poupardin , The kingdom of Provence under the Carolingians (855-933) , painting "La famille de Boson", p. 40 .
Pierre Riché , The Carolingians, a family that made Europe , Paris, Hachette, coll. "Plural",1983( reprint 1997), 490 p. ( ISBN 2-01-278851-3 , online presentation [ archive ] ), Genealogical table XII, the Bosonides .
Charles having certainly learned in his house in Douzy, on October 9, that his wife Ermentrude had died on October 6, in the monastery of Saint-Denis where she was buried, immediately sent Boson, son of the late Count Bouin, in a message to his mother and maternal aunt Teutberge, widow of king Lothaire (Annales de Saint-Bertin, 869 [ archive ] )
Christian Settipani , The Prehistory of the Capetians ( New genealogical history of the august house of France , vol. 1) , Villeneuve-d'Ascq, ed. Patrick van Kerrebrouck,1993, 545 p. ( ISBN 978-2-95015-093-6 ) , p. 363-366.
Bivin's genealogy on the Medieval Lands site [ archive ]
Genealogy of Richard Count of Amiens on the Medieval Lands site [ archive ]
René Poupardin , The kingdom of Provence under the Carolingians (855-933) , p. 43
René Poupardin , The kingdom of Provence under the Carolingians (855-933) , p. 43 , 44
René Poupardin , The kingdom of Provence under the Carolingians (855-933) , p. 44
Pierre Riché, op. cit.
Genealogy of Richard the Justicier on the Medieval Lands site [ archive ]
Bibliography
René Poupardin , The kingdom of Provence under the Carolingians (855-933) , Laffitte reprints, Marseille, 1974, reprint of the Paris edition, 1901.
Pierre Riché , The Carolingians, a family that made Europe , Hachette Littérature (1997 edition) - ( ISBN 2012788513 ) .
-- MERGED NOTE ------------
According to Wikipedia:
Bivin of Gorze (810/830-863) was a Frank founder of the Bivinids family. He was married to a daughter of Boso the Elder, who may have been called Richildis. During his life he functioned as lay abbot of the Gorze Abbey.[1] His offspring includes:
Richildis, who married King Charles the Bald;[1]
Richard the Justiciar, Duke of Burgundy;
Boso, King of Provence;
possibly Bivin, Count of Metz.
Notes
Pierre Riche, The Carolingians: The Family who Forged Europe, transl. Michael Idomir Allen, (University of Pennsylvania Press, 1983), 198.
Sources
Pierre Riché, The Carolingians, a family who forged Europe.
According to the French version of Wikipedia:
Bivin Vienna or Beuves, Buwin, Bouvin, Bouin, Brouin, Warin, Guerin , (c. 822 - 865 / 869 ), known as the Bivin Gorze is an enigmatic character, Count of Ardennes , lay abbot de Gorze and perhaps count of Metz (842-864). He and his descendants formed a family of Frankish nobility called the Bivinides .
Origin
In 1901, René Poupardin said to ignore the parentage, but said he was married to a daughter of Boson the Elder 1 .
Since then, several hypotheses have been put forward to determine its origin.
Abandoned hypothesis
Some have compared the first name of Boson, carried by a son and a grandson of Boson to the family of Boson the Elder , count of Arles , also father of another Boson count in Italy. This proposition is taken up among others by the historian Pierre Riché 2 :
Boson the Elder
Count of Arles
Bivin
abbé de Gorze
Teutberge
x Lothaire II
Boson
count in Italy
Hucbert
Duke of Transjurane
Boson
king in Provence
Richard the Justicier
duke of Burgundy
Raoul
king of France
Hugues the Black
Duke of Burgundy
Boson
count
First hypothesis, now abandoned
Current hypothesis
But this reconstruction is in contradiction with the Annales de Saint-Bertin , which indicate that Queen Teutberge is the maternal aunt of Boson 3 . It turns out that Bivin cannot be Teutberge's brother, but married to one of the latter's sisters.
Two other documents make it possible to envisage another track for the origin of Bivin:
a diploma of the emperor Lothaire I confirms in 842 a donation made by Richard , count and ostiary of Louis the Pious at the request of the testamentary executors of which his brother Bivin.
the historian Richer , speaking of Charles Constantin , count of Vienne and great-grandson of Bivin, said of royal family, but tainted with bastardy at the level of his tritavus , that is to say his ancestor at the sixth generation.
From these data, Christian Settipani proposes the following reconstruction 4 , 5 , 6 :
he considers that the royal family of which Charles Constantin is a member is the Carolingian family, and that the term "family" relates in this context exclusively to the male line.
he considers that, chronologically, the tritavus is a bastard son of Charles Martel .
the only known bastard sons of Charles Martel are Remi , bishop of Rouen, who had no descendants, and Count Jérôme . For Settipani, the Charles Constantin's tritavus is Count Jérôme.
Richard's first names carried by a brother and a son of Bivin, are uncommon in viii th century and the second wife of Count Jerome Gothe is a princess. It approximates the name of Richard with that of Reccared carried by two kings of Wisigoths ( Reccared I st and Reccared II ) and identifies the intermediate generations with the few known Richard.
This reasoning gives the following table:
Rotrude
Charles Martel
mayor of the palace
concubine
Pepin the Short
King of the Franks
Jérôme
count
Erscheswinda
princess gothe
NOT
<=? =>
Richard
count of Rouen
NOT
<=? =>
Richard
count of Amiens
Boson the Elder
Count of Arles
Engeltrude
?
Richilde
x Ecchard
cte de Mâcon
and Autun
Richard
count and ostiary
Bivin
abbé de Gorze
( coast of Metz ?)
Born
Teutberge
x Lothaire II
Boson
count in Italy
Hucbert
Duke of Transjurane
Boson
king in Provence
x Ermengarde
Richard the Justicier
duke of Burgundy
Richilde d'Ardennes
x Charles le Chauve
Louis III the Blind
King of Italy
Raoul
king of France
Hugues the Black
Duke of Burgundy
Boson
count
Charles Constantin
count of Vienna
Hypothesis from Christian Settipani
Biographical elements
According to René Poupardin he was appointed lay abbot of Gorze by Lothaire II , between September 28, 855 and July 8, 856 7 . In 857 , he appeared in two charters with the title of "count and abbot of Gorze" 7 . But having apparently allowed this abbey to collapse and tolerated the relaxation of the discipline, he must yield it in 863 , on the initiative of the archbishop of Metz Advence , to a clerk by the name of Betton 8 . This charter is the last one we have on him.
Some indicate that he is still alive in 865 and according to Bishop Hincmar of Reims , his contemporary, he died in 869 9 . Bivin would therefore have died between 865 and 869.
Progeny
Some historians, such as Pierre Riché 10 , agree to make him the father of:
Richard II of Burgundy 11 dit Richard le Justicier , founder of the first house of the Dukes of Burgundy .
Boson V de Provence , king of Burgondie restored
Richilde d'Ardennes , concubine and second wife ( 870 ) of the king of France Charles II the Bald .
Notes and references
René Poupardin , The kingdom of Provence under the Carolingians (855-933) , painting "La famille de Boson", p. 40 .
Pierre Riché , The Carolingians, a family that made Europe , Paris, Hachette, coll. "Plural",1983( reprint 1997), 490 p. ( ISBN 2-01-278851-3 , online presentation [ archive ] ), Genealogical table XII, the Bosonides .
Charles having certainly learned in his house in Douzy, on October 9, that his wife Ermentrude had died on October 6, in the monastery of Saint-Denis where she was buried, immediately sent Boson, son of the late Count Bouin, in a message to his mother and maternal aunt Teutberge, widow of king Lothaire (Annales de Saint-Bertin, 869 [ archive ] )
Christian Settipani , The Prehistory of the Capetians ( New genealogical history of the august house of France , vol. 1) , Villeneuve-d'Ascq, ed. Patrick van Kerrebrouck,1993, 545 p. ( ISBN 978-2-95015-093-6 ) , p. 363-366.
Bivin's genealogy on the Medieval Lands site [ archive ]
Genealogy of Richard Count of Amiens on the Medieval Lands site [ archive ]
René Poupardin , The kingdom of Provence under the Carolingians (855-933) , p. 43
René Poupardin , The kingdom of Provence under the Carolingians (855-933) , p. 43 , 44
René Poupardin , The kingdom of Provence under the Carolingians (855-933) , p. 44
Pierre Riché, op. cit.
Genealogy of Richard the Justicier on the Medieval Lands site [ archive ]
Bibliography
René Poupardin , The kingdom of Provence under the Carolingians (855-933) , Laffitte reprints, Marseille, 1974, reprint of the Paris edition, 1901.
According to Wikipedia:
Bivin of Gorze (810/830-863) was a Frank founder of the Bivinids family. He was married to a daughter of Boso the Elder, who may have been called Richildis. During his life he functioned as lay abbot of the Gorze Abbey.[1] His offspring includes:
Richildis, who married King Charles the Bald;[1]
Richard the Justiciar, Duke of Burgundy;
Boso, King of Provence;
possibly Bivin, Count of Metz.
Notes
Pierre Riche, The Carolingians: The Family who Forged Europe, transl. Michael Idomir Allen, (University of Pennsylvania Press, 1983), 198.
Sources
Pierre Riché, The Carolingians, a family who forged Europe.
According to the French version of Wikipedia:
Bivin Vienna or Beuves, Buwin, Bouvin, Bouin, Brouin, Warin, Guerin , (c. 822 - 865 / 869 ), known as the Bivin Gorze is an enigmatic character, Count of Ardennes , lay abbot de Gorze and perhaps count of Metz (842-864). He and his descendants formed a family of Frankish nobility called the Bivinides .
Origin
In 1901, René Poupardin said to ignore the parentage, but said he was married to a daughter of Boson the Elder 1 .
Since then, several hypotheses have been put forward to determine its origin.
Abandoned hypothesis
Some have compared the first name of Boson, carried by a son and a grandson of Boson to the family of Boson the Elder , count of Arles , also father of another Boson count in Italy. This proposition is taken up among others by the historian Pierre Riché 2 :
Boson the Elder
Count of Arles
Bivin
abbé de Gorze
Teutberge
x Lothaire II
Boson
count in Italy
Hucbert
Duke of Transjurane
Boson
king in Provence
Richard the Justicier
duke of Burgundy
Raoul
king of France
Hugues the Black
Duke of Burgundy
Boson
count
First hypothesis, now abandoned
Current hypothesis
But this reconstruction is in contradiction with the Annales de Saint-Bertin , which indicate that Queen Teutberge is the maternal aunt of Boson 3 . It turns out that Bivin cannot be Teutberge's brother, but married to one of the latter's sisters.
Two other documents make it possible to envisage another track for the origin of Bivin:
a diploma of the emperor Lothaire I confirms in 842 a donation made by Richard , count and ostiary of Louis the Pious at the request of the testamentary executors of which his brother Bivin.
the historian Richer , speaking of Charles Constantin , count of Vienne and great-grandson of Bivin, said of royal family, but tainted with bastardy at the level of his tritavus , that is to say his ancestor at the sixth generation.
From these data, Christian Settipani proposes the following reconstruction 4 , 5 , 6 :
he considers that the royal family of which Charles Constantin is a member is the Carolingian family, and that the term "family" relates in this context exclusively to the male line.
he considers that, chronologically, the tritavus is a bastard son of Charles Martel .
the only known bastard sons of Charles Martel are Remi , bishop of Rouen, who had no descendants, and Count Jérôme . For Settipani, the Charles Constantin's tritavus is Count Jérôme.
Richard's first names carried by a brother and a son of Bivin, are uncommon in viii th century and the second wife of Count Jerome Gothe is a princess. It approximates the name of Richard with that of Reccared carried by two kings of Wisigoths ( Reccared I st and Reccared II ) and identifies the intermediate generations with the few known Richard.
This reasoning gives the following table:
Rotrude
Charles Martel
mayor of the palace
concubine
Pepin the Short
King of the Franks
Jérôme
count
Erscheswinda
princess gothe
NOT
<=? =>
Richard
count of Rouen
NOT
<=? =>
Richard
count of Amiens
Boson the Elder
Count of Arles
Engeltrude
?
Richilde
x Ecchard
cte de Mâcon
and Autun
Richard
count and ostiary
Bivin
abbé de Gorze
( coast of Metz ?)
Born
Teutberge
x Lothaire II
Boson
count in Italy
Hucbert
Duke of Transjurane
Boson
king in Provence
x Ermengarde
Richard the Justicier
duke of Burgundy
Richilde d'Ardennes
x Charles le Chauve
Louis III the Blind
King of Italy
Raoul
king of France
Hugues the Black
Duke of Burgundy
Boson
count
Charles Constantin
count of Vienna
Hypothesis from Christian Settipani
Biographical elements
According to René Poupardin he was appointed lay abbot of Gorze by Lothaire II , between September 28, 855 and July 8, 856 7 . In 857 , he appeared in two charters with the title of "count and abbot of Gorze" 7 . But having apparently allowed this abbey to collapse and tolerated the relaxation of the discipline, he must yield it in 863 , on the initiative of the archbishop of Metz Advence , to a clerk by the name of Betton 8 . This charter is the last one we have on him.
Some indicate that he is still alive in 865 and according to Bishop Hincmar of Reims , his contemporary, he died in 869 9 . Bivin would therefore have died between 865 and 869.
Progeny
Some historians, such as Pierre Riché 10 , agree to make him the father of:
Richard II of Burgundy 11 dit Richard le Justicier , founder of the first house of the Dukes of Burgundy .
Boson V de Provence , king of Burgondie restored
Richilde d'Ardennes , concubine and second wife ( 870 ) of the king of France Charles II the Bald .
Notes and references
René Poupardin , The kingdom of Provence under the Carolingians (855-933) , painting "La famille de Boson", p. 40 .
Pierre Riché , The Carolingians, a family that made Europe , Paris, Hachette, coll. "Plural",1983( reprint 1997), 490 p. ( ISBN 2-01-278851-3 , online presentation [ archive ] ), Genealogical table XII, the Bosonides .
Charles having certainly learned in his house in Douzy, on October 9, that his wife Ermentrude had died on October 6, in the monastery of Saint-Denis where she was buried, immediately sent Boson, son of the late Count Bouin, in a message to his mother and maternal aunt Teutberge, widow of king Lothaire (Annales de Saint-Bertin, 869 [ archive ] )
Christian Settipani , The Prehistory of the Capetians ( New genealogical history of the august house of France , vol. 1) , Villeneuve-d'Ascq, ed. Patrick van Kerrebrouck,1993, 545 p. ( ISBN 978-2-95015-093-6 ) , p. 363-366.
Bivin's genealogy on the Medieval Lands site [ archive ]
Genealogy of Richard Count of Amiens on the Medieval Lands site [ archive ]
René Poupardin , The kingdom of Provence under the Carolingians (855-933) , p. 43
René Poupardin , The kingdom of Provence under the Carolingians (855-933) , p. 43 , 44
René Poupardin , The kingdom of Provence under the Carolingians (855-933) , p. 44
Pierre Riché, op. cit.
Genealogy of Richard the Justicier on the Medieval Lands site [ archive ]
Bibliography
René Poupardin , The kingdom of Provence under the Carolingians (855-933) , Laffitte reprints, Marseille, 1974, reprint of the Paris edition, 1901.
Pierre Riché , The Carolingians, a family that made Europe , Hachette Littérature (1997 edition) - ( ISBN 2012788513 ) .
-- MERGED NOTE ------------
According to Wikipedia:
Bivin of Gorze (810/830-863) was a Frank founder of the Bivinids family. He was married to a daughter of Boso the Elder, who may have been called Richildis. During his life he functioned as lay abbot of the Gorze Abbey.[1] His offspring includes:
Richildis, who married King Charles the Bald;[1]
Richard the Justiciar, Duke of Burgundy;
Boso, King of Provence;
possibly Bivin, Count of Metz.
Notes
Pierre Riche, The Carolingians: The Family who Forged Europe, transl. Michael Idomir Allen, (University of Pennsylvania Press, 1983), 198.
Sources
Pierre Riché, The Carolingians, a family who forged Europe.
According to the French version of Wikipedia:
Bivin Vienna or Beuves, Buwin, Bouvin, Bouin, Brouin, Warin, Guerin , (c. 822 - 865 / 869 ), known as the Bivin Gorze is an enigmatic character, Count of Ardennes , lay abbot de Gorze and perhaps count of Metz (842-864). He and his descendants formed a family of Frankish nobility called the Bivinides .
Origin
In 1901, René Poupardin said to ignore the parentage, but said he was married to a daughter of Boson the Elder 1 .
Since then, several hypotheses have been put forward to determine its origin.
Abandoned hypothesis
Some have compared the first name of Boson, carried by a son and a grandson of Boson to the family of Boson the Elder , count of Arles , also father of another Boson count in Italy. This proposition is taken up among others by the historian Pierre Riché 2 :
Boson the Elder
Count of Arles
Bivin
abbé de Gorze
Teutberge
x Lothaire II
Boson
count in Italy
Hucbert
Duke of Transjurane
Boson
king in Provence
Richard the Justicier
duke of Burgundy
Raoul
king of France
Hugues the Black
Duke of Burgundy
Boson
count
First hypothesis, now abandoned
Current hypothesis
But this reconstruction is in contradiction with the Annales de Saint-Bertin , which indicate that Queen Teutberge is the maternal aunt of Boson 3 . It turns out that Bivin cannot be Teutberge's brother, but married to one of the latter's sisters.
Two other documents make it possible to envisage another track for the origin of Bivin:
a diploma of the emperor Lothaire I confirms in 842 a donation made by Richard , count and ostiary of Louis the Pious at the request of the testamentary executors of which his brother Bivin.
the historian Richer , speaking of Charles Constantin , count of Vienne and great-grandson of Bivin, said of royal family, but tainted with bastardy at the level of his tritavus , that is to say his ancestor at the sixth generation.
From these data, Christian Settipani proposes the following reconstruction 4 , 5 , 6 :
he considers that the royal family of which Charles Constantin is a member is the Carolingian family, and that the term "family" relates in this context exclusively to the male line.
he considers that, chronologically, the tritavus is a bastard son of Charles Martel .
the only known bastard sons of Charles Martel are Remi , bishop of Rouen, who had no descendants, and Count Jérôme . For Settipani, the Charles Constantin's tritavus is Count Jérôme.
Richard's first names carried by a brother and a son of Bivin, are uncommon in viii th century and the second wife of Count Jerome Gothe is a princess. It approximates the name of Richard with that of Reccared carried by two kings of Wisigoths ( Reccared I st and Reccared II ) and identifies the intermediate generations with the few known Richard.
This reasoning gives the following table:
Rotrude
Charles Martel
mayor of the palace
concubine
Pepin the Short
King of the Franks
Jérôme
count
Erscheswinda
princess gothe
NOT
<=? =>
Richard
count of Rouen
NOT
<=? =>
Richard
count of Amiens
Boson the Elder
Count of Arles
Engeltrude
?
Richilde
x Ecchard
cte de Mâcon
and Autun
Richard
count and ostiary
Bivin
abbé de Gorze
( coast of Metz ?)
Born
Teutberge
x Lothaire II
Boson
count in Italy
Hucbert
Duke of Transjurane
Boson
king in Provence
x Ermengarde
Richard the Justicier
duke of Burgundy
Richilde d'Ardennes
x Charles le Chauve
Louis III the Blind
King of Italy
Raoul
king of France
Hugues the Black
Duke of Burgundy
Boson
count
Charles Constantin
count of Vienna
Hypothesis from Christian Settipani
Biographical elements
According to René Poupardin he was appointed lay abbot of Gorze by Lothaire II , between September 28, 855 and July 8, 856 7 . In 857 , he appeared in two charters with the title of "count and abbot of Gorze" 7 . But having apparently allowed this abbey to collapse and tolerated the relaxation of the discipline, he must yield it in 863 , on the initiative of the archbishop of Metz Advence , to a clerk by the name of Betton 8 . This charter is the last one we have on him.
Some indicate that he is still alive in 865 and according to Bishop Hincmar of Reims , his contemporary, he died in 869 9 . Bivin would therefore have died between 865 and 869.
Progeny
Some historians, such as Pierre Riché 10 , agree to make him the father of:
Richard II of Burgundy 11 dit Richard le Justicier , founder of the first house of the Dukes of Burgundy .
Boson V de Provence , king of Burgondie restored
Richilde d'Ardennes , concubine and second wife ( 870 ) of the king of France Charles II the Bald .
Notes and references
René Poupardin , The kingdom of Provence under the Carolingians (855-933) , painting "La famille de Boson", p. 40 .
Pierre Riché , The Carolingians, a family that made Europe , Paris, Hachette, coll. "Plural",1983( reprint 1997), 490 p. ( ISBN 2-01-278851-3 , online presentation [ archive ] ), Genealogical table XII, the Bosonides .
Charles having certainly learned in his house in Douzy, on October 9, that his wife Ermentrude had died on October 6, in the monastery of Saint-Denis where she was buried, immediately sent Boson, son of the late Count Bouin, in a message to his mother and maternal aunt Teutberge, widow of king Lothaire (Annales de Saint-Bertin, 869 [ archive ] )
Christian Settipani , The Prehistory of the Capetians ( New genealogical history of the august house of France , vol. 1) , Villeneuve-d'Ascq, ed. Patrick van Kerrebrouck,1993, 545 p. ( ISBN 978-2-95015-093-6 ) , p. 363-366.
Bivin's genealogy on the Medieval Lands site [ archive ]
Genealogy of Richard Count of Amiens on the Medieval Lands site [ archive ]
René Poupardin , The kingdom of Provence under the Carolingians (855-933) , p. 43
René Poupardin , The kingdom of Provence under the Carolingians (855-933) , p. 43 , 44
René Poupardin , The kingdom of Provence under the Carolingians (855-933) , p. 44
Pierre Riché, op. cit.
Genealogy of Richard the Justicier on the Medieval Lands site [ archive ]
Bibliography
René Poupardin , The kingdom of Provence under the Carolingians (855-933) , Laffitte reprints, Marseille, 1974, reprint of the Paris edition, 1901.
According to Wikipedia:
Bivin of Gorze (810/830-863) was a Frank founder of the Bivinids family. He was married to a daughter of Boso the Elder, who may have been called Richildis. During his life he functioned as lay abbot of the Gorze Abbey.[1] His offspring includes:
Richildis, who married King Charles the Bald;[1]
Richard the Justiciar, Duke of Burgundy;
Boso, King of Provence;
possibly Bivin, Count of Metz.
Notes
Pierre Riche, The Carolingians: The Family who Forged Europe, transl. Michael Idomir Allen, (University of Pennsylvania Press, 1983), 198.
Sources
Pierre Riché, The Carolingians, a family who forged Europe.
According to the French version of Wikipedia:
Bivin Vienna or Beuves, Buwin, Bouvin, Bouin, Brouin, Warin, Guerin , (c. 822 - 865 / 869 ), known as the Bivin Gorze is an enigmatic character, Count of Ardennes , lay abbot de Gorze and perhaps count of Metz (842-864). He and his descendants formed a family of Frankish nobility called the Bivinides .
Origin
In 1901, René Poupardin said to ignore the parentage, but said he was married to a daughter of Boson the Elder 1 .
Since then, several hypotheses have been put forward to determine its origin.
Abandoned hypothesis
Some have compared the first name of Boson, carried by a son and a grandson of Boson to the family of Boson the Elder , count of Arles , also father of another Boson count in Italy. This proposition is taken up among others by the historian Pierre Riché 2 :
Boson the Elder
Count of Arles
Bivin
abbé de Gorze
Teutberge
x Lothaire II
Boson
count in Italy
Hucbert
Duke of Transjurane
Boson
king in Provence
Richard the Justicier
duke of Burgundy
Raoul
king of France
Hugues the Black
Duke of Burgundy
Boson
count
First hypothesis, now abandoned
Current hypothesis
But this reconstruction is in contradiction with the Annales de Saint-Bertin , which indicate that Queen Teutberge is the maternal aunt of Boson 3 . It turns out that Bivin cannot be Teutberge's brother, but married to one of the latter's sisters.
Two other documents make it possible to envisage another track for the origin of Bivin:
a diploma of the emperor Lothaire I confirms in 842 a donation made by Richard , count and ostiary of Louis the Pious at the request of the testamentary executors of which his brother Bivin.
the historian Richer , speaking of Charles Constantin , count of Vienne and great-grandson of Bivin, said of royal family, but tainted with bastardy at the level of his tritavus , that is to say his ancestor at the sixth generation.
From these data, Christian Settipani proposes the following reconstruction 4 , 5 , 6 :
he considers that the royal family of which Charles Constantin is a member is the Carolingian family, and that the term "family" relates in this context exclusively to the male line.
he considers that, chronologically, the tritavus is a bastard son of Charles Martel .
the only known bastard sons of Charles Martel are Remi , bishop of Rouen, who had no descendants, and Count Jérôme . For Settipani, the Charles Constantin's tritavus is Count Jérôme.
Richard's first names carried by a brother and a son of Bivin, are uncommon in viii th century and the second wife of Count Jerome Gothe is a princess. It approximates the name of Richard with that of Reccared carried by two kings of Wisigoths ( Reccared I st and Reccared II ) and identifies the intermediate generations with the few known Richard.
This reasoning gives the following table:
Rotrude
Charles Martel
mayor of the palace
concubine
Pepin the Short
King of the Franks
Jérôme
count
Erscheswinda
princess gothe
NOT
<=? =>
Richard
count of Rouen
NOT
<=? =>
Richard
count of Amiens
Boson the Elder
Count of Arles
Engeltrude
?
Richilde
x Ecchard
cte de Mâcon
and Autun
Richard
count and ostiary
Bivin
abbé de Gorze
( coast of Metz ?)
Born
Teutberge
x Lothaire II
Boson
count in Italy
Hucbert
Duke of Transjurane
Boson
king in Provence
x Ermengarde
Richard the Justicier
duke of Burgundy
Richilde d'Ardennes
x Charles le Chauve
Louis III the Blind
King of Italy
Raoul
king of France
Hugues the Black
Duke of Burgundy
Boson
count
Charles Constantin
count of Vienna
Hypothesis from Christian Settipani
Biographical elements
According to René Poupardin he was appointed lay abbot of Gorze by Lothaire II , between September 28, 855 and July 8, 856 7 . In 857 , he appeared in two charters with the title of "count and abbot of Gorze" 7 . But having apparently allowed this abbey to collapse and tolerated the relaxation of the discipline, he must yield it in 863 , on the initiative of the archbishop of Metz Advence , to a clerk by the name of Betton 8 . This charter is the last one we have on him.
Some indicate that he is still alive in 865 and according to Bishop Hincmar of Reims , his contemporary, he died in 869 9 . Bivin would therefore have died between 865 and 869.
Progeny
Some historians, such as Pierre Riché 10 , agree to make him the father of:
Richard II of Burgundy 11 dit Richard le Justicier , founder of the first house of the Dukes of Burgundy .
Boson V de Provence , king of Burgondie restored
Richilde d'Ardennes , concubine and second wife ( 870 ) of the king of France Charles II the Bald .
Notes and references
René Poupardin , The kingdom of Provence under the Carolingians (855-933) , painting "La famille de Boson", p. 40 .
Pierre Riché , The Carolingians, a family that made Europe , Paris, Hachette, coll. "Plural",1983( reprint 1997), 490 p. ( ISBN 2-01-278851-3 , online presentation [ archive ] ), Genealogical table XII, the Bosonides .
Charles having certainly learned in his house in Douzy, on October 9, that his wife Ermentrude had died on October 6, in the monastery of Saint-Denis where she was buried, immediately sent Boson, son of the late Count Bouin, in a message to his mother and maternal aunt Teutberge, widow of king Lothaire (Annales de Saint-Bertin, 869 [ archive ] )
Christian Settipani , The Prehistory of the Capetians ( New genealogical history of the august house of France , vol. 1) , Villeneuve-d'Ascq, ed. Patrick van Kerrebrouck,1993, 545 p. ( ISBN 978-2-95015-093-6 ) , p. 363-366.
Bivin's genealogy on the Medieval Lands site [ archive ]
Genealogy of Richard Count of Amiens on the Medieval Lands site [ archive ]
René Poupardin , The kingdom of Provence under the Carolingians (855-933) , p. 43
René Poupardin , The kingdom of Provence under the Carolingians (855-933) , p. 43 , 44
René Poupardin , The kingdom of Provence under the Carolingians (855-933) , p. 44
Pierre Riché, op. cit.
Genealogy of Richard the Justicier on the Medieval Lands site [ archive ]
Bibliography
René Poupardin , The kingdom of Provence under the Carolingians (855-933) , Laffitte reprints, Marseille, 1974, reprint of the Paris edition, 1901.
Pierre Riché , The Carolingians, a family that made Europe , Hachette Littérature (1997 edition) - ( ISBN 2012788513 ) .
Events
| Birth | 822 | ||||
| Death | Bet 865 and 869 |
Families
| Spouse | Living |
| Child | Boso of Lower Burgundy (841 - 887) |
| Child | Richilde of Provence (845 - 910) |
| Child | Richard "The Justiciar," Duke of Burgundy (858 - 921) |